Join us for an engaging episode of Apiary Chronicles as we explore the fascinating world of beekeeping with our guest, Phoebe Snyder, a dedicated beekeeper from Greensboro, North Carolina. Discover Phoebe's intriguing journey into beekeeping, starting from her childhood on a farm in Western Maryland and her unique experience selling praying mantis egg sacks on eBay. Initially aspiring to become a violinist or surgeon, Phoebe's passion for insects and a chance mentorship with a USDA researcher led her to the world of bees. Although she only recently acquired her own hives, Phoebe has been managing bees in research settings since 2015, and her academic background in biology provides valuable insights into bee behavior and hygienic practices.
Listen in as we discuss the emotional and personal growth aspects of beekeeping, highlighting the unexpected connections formed with these industrious insects. Phoebe shares her experiences of overcoming challenges such as bee stings and heat stroke during the early stages of her beekeeping journey. Despite these hurdles, her passion for beekeeping grew, eventually leading her to expand her operations and transform her hobby into a business venture. With plans to increase her colonies and offer services like teaching beekeeping at a local college, Phoebe illustrates the balance between personal fulfillment and professional growth.
In this episode, we also explore collaborative beekeeping efforts and the importance of maintaining genetic diversity within bee populations. Discover the various methods used to test hygienic behavior in bees, including innovative techniques developed with researchers. As Phoebe shares her insights on beekeeping tools, lessons learned, and favorite resources, she encourages both newcomers and seasoned beekeepers to embrace continuous learning and adaptability. With anecdotes and practical advice, this episode offers a rich perspective on the world of beekeeping and the valuable life lessons it imparts.
Links Mentioned in the Episode
BeeSource
Phoebe on Instagram
Apiary Chronicles Links
website
Check out the Grazing Grass Podcast
Chapters
- (00:00) - Introduction to Today's Episode
- (00:24) - Fast Five with Phoebe Snyder
- (01:08) - Phoebe's Beekeeping Journey
- (03:51) - Early Experiences with Bees
- (05:38) - Academic Pursuits and Research
- (09:49) - Starting Her Own Apiary
- (19:33) - Expanding the Apiary
- (21:46) - Future Plans and Collaborations
- (25:09) - The Chaos of Beekeeping
- (25:35) - Italian Bees and Local Stock
- (26:51) - The Importance of Networking in Beekeeping
- (28:57) - Balancing Beekeeping and Personal Life
- (31:05) - Online Resources for Beekeepers
- (33:46) - Understanding Hygienic Behavior in Bees
- (35:05) - Testing Methods for Hygienic Behavior
- (44:18) - Selection Criteria for Breeder Bees
- (49:24) - Famous Four Questions
NOTE This file was generated by Descript
00:00:02 --> 00:00:04 Speaker: On today's episode,
00:00:09 --> 00:00:13 On today's episode, we have Phoebe Snyder, and we talk about her journey
00:00:13 --> 00:00:19 with bees, and then for the Beyond the Buzz, we talk about hygienic bees.
00:00:20 --> 00:00:23 I think it's a great conversation, and I think you'll enjoy.
00:00:24 --> 00:00:26 cal_1_01-30-2025_124204: so to start out, What's your name?
00:00:26 --> 00:00:27 phoebe_1_01-30-2025_134205: Phoebe Synder
00:00:28 --> 00:00:31 cal_1_01-30-2025_124204: Our second question, what's your apiary's name
00:00:31 --> 00:00:32 phoebe_1_01-30-2025_134205: Phoebe's Bees,
00:00:33 --> 00:00:34 cal_1_01-30-2025_124204: and where are you located?
00:00:34 --> 00:00:36 phoebe_1_01-30-2025_134205: in Greensboro, North Carolina.
00:00:37 --> 00:00:38 cal_1_01-30-2025_124204: And what year did you start with bees?
00:00:39 --> 00:00:42 phoebe_1_01-30-2025_134205: It was around, I'd say 2015.
00:00:42 --> 00:00:44 So it was about 10 years ago now.
00:00:45 --> 00:00:46 cal_1_01-30-2025_124204: Oh, very good.
00:00:46 --> 00:00:48 And how many colonies do you manage?
00:00:48 --> 00:00:52 phoebe_1_01-30-2025_134205: Currently I'm around 30, but this, coming year
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55 probably will get up to around 50 or 60.
00:00:55 --> 00:00:56 cal_1_01-30-2025_124204: Oh, very good.
00:00:57 --> 00:01:02 Cal: Welcome to Apiary Chronicles, where we dive deep into the world of beekeeping
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 and the people who make it all happen.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:08 I'm Cal Hardage your host and fellow bee enthusiast.
00:01:09 --> 00:01:11 cal_1_01-30-2025_124204: So that begs the question, why bees?
00:01:12 --> 00:01:13 phoebe_1_01-30-2025_134205: That's a, that's a good question.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:16 It kind of goes back to how I grew up.
00:01:17 --> 00:01:22 I grew up on a farm, a small farm about five acres in in western Maryland.
00:01:23 --> 00:01:28 And we had sheep and goats and donkeys, all, everything but bees
00:01:28 --> 00:01:30 we had pretty much hedgehogs too.
00:01:31 --> 00:01:36 And So, I think, well, I mean, there were a few other career
00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 ideas I had before settling on Bs.
00:01:39 --> 00:01:44 I was gonna be a professional violinist and a surgeon and all kinds of
00:01:44 --> 00:01:49 stuff, but I realized that You know, I really liked working outdoors
00:01:49 --> 00:01:53 and what kind of solidified that for me was early on in college.
00:01:54 --> 00:01:56 My mom is is quite the entrepreneur.
00:01:56 --> 00:02:00 She has her own sewing business, but on the side she has an eBay business.
00:02:00 --> 00:02:06 And one of the things, as unethical as I feel like this is now we
00:02:07 --> 00:02:11 started hunting for and selling praying mannose egg sacs on eBay.
00:02:12 --> 00:02:17 So it was kind of that, it was just so entertaining, you know, to on a
00:02:17 --> 00:02:20 Sunday, you know, we would be in, we hunt for them and in the winter.
00:02:21 --> 00:02:26 So getting our our shears or our printers and, you know, a pillowcase and we would
00:02:26 --> 00:02:30 go and, you know, As we had started to do it more and more, we figured
00:02:30 --> 00:02:35 out kind of where they were and you know, so it just kind of became really
00:02:35 --> 00:02:38 interesting to learn an insect like that.
00:02:38 --> 00:02:39 And I don't know.
00:02:39 --> 00:02:41 So then it just kind of naturally brought me.
00:02:42 --> 00:02:46 To bees with there being, you know, beekeeping, not many people would think
00:02:46 --> 00:02:51 of it, but beekeeping is really a, an entire industry and contributes so
00:02:51 --> 00:02:53 much to, to other areas of agriculture.
00:02:53 --> 00:02:57 So, you know, behavior was really the majority of my interest and
00:02:57 --> 00:02:59 bees are the busiest of all.
00:02:59 --> 00:03:02 So there's a lot to learn with them behavior wise.
00:03:02 --> 00:03:04 cal_2_01-30-2025_124807: Phoebe, I think it's really interesting
00:03:04 --> 00:03:05 you mentioned praying mantis.
00:03:05 --> 00:03:10 I remember being in high school and I tried, I was convincing my brother
00:03:10 --> 00:03:13 praying mantis are the pets of the future.
00:03:13 --> 00:03:14 phoebe_2_01-30-2025_134807: Mm
00:03:14 --> 00:03:16 cal_2_01-30-2025_124807: You know, people could have them in their room.
00:03:16 --> 00:03:23 They'd have to, I didn't, I didn't know anything beyond, oh, they'd be so cool.
00:03:23 --> 00:03:26 But, I remember telling my brother about praying mantis that
00:03:26 --> 00:03:27 we've got to figure this out.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30 phoebe_2_01-30-2025_134807: See, we were on the same, same wavelength there.
00:03:31 --> 00:03:36 But yeah, people had bought, bought them you know, we would sell the egg case and
00:03:36 --> 00:03:39 each one has like five, up to 500 praying
00:03:39 --> 00:03:39 mantids.
00:03:40 --> 00:03:45 And, you know, people would buy them by the hundreds and, and I, as unethical
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 as it was, I felt like we harvested in a sustainable, you know, we would
00:03:48 --> 00:03:51 only take every other egg sacs found,
00:03:51 --> 00:03:57 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: oh yeah, so you got started with bees in about 2015?
00:03:58 --> 00:03:59 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Correct.
00:03:59 --> 00:03:59 Yep.
00:03:59 --> 00:04:01 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: what brought you to that point that you
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 said, okay, let's get some bees?
00:04:03 --> 00:04:08 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: So I actually, that's kind of the, the part of it.
00:04:08 --> 00:04:12 I haven't, it, I only just got my own bees two years ago.
00:04:12 --> 00:04:13 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, okay.
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: so I've kept bees in research settings and through
00:04:17 --> 00:04:19 like consultative kind of services.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:25 So when I first got started then in 2015, there was a mentor.
00:04:25 --> 00:04:30 She was working as a chemistry adjunct professor at the school I went to,
00:04:30 --> 00:04:34 but she kind of, so she did that part time, but then, you know, she
00:04:34 --> 00:04:37 worked as a researcher at the USDA.
00:04:37 --> 00:04:41 And so we, you know, she kind of started me at the ground level, you know, I was
00:04:41 --> 00:04:42 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh yeah.
00:04:42 --> 00:04:44 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: and working bees and you know,
00:04:44 --> 00:04:46 so I guess because I had the.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:52 science side, you know, so I kind of leveled up into helping her on
00:04:52 --> 00:04:57 different research trips and taking data and it just kind of went from there.
00:04:57 --> 00:05:02 And then that eventually after I graduated college, I worked for her as an intern
00:05:02 --> 00:05:04 at the USDA before starting my master's.
00:05:05 --> 00:05:08 It is kind of funny to think that, you know, I've been keeping.
00:05:09 --> 00:05:11 Other people's B's all these years and it was good.
00:05:11 --> 00:05:12 It was good practice before I
00:05:13 --> 00:05:13 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh yeah.
00:05:13 --> 00:05:14 Yeah.
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16 Oh yeah.
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: probably the more extreme of, know test
00:05:19 --> 00:05:21 drive the car before you buy it.
00:05:21 --> 00:05:26 But I was already, you know, the first time I went into with, with Jodi, my
00:05:26 --> 00:05:28 mentor, you know, I knew I would be.
00:05:29 --> 00:05:31 doing this as a career.
00:05:31 --> 00:05:34 I don't, I don't, I didn't know what that meant at the time, but
00:05:34 --> 00:05:36 I was like, oh yeah, this is it.
00:05:37 --> 00:05:38 So here we are.
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Did you, so your undergrad or your
00:05:41 --> 00:05:43 bachelor's degree is in biology?
00:05:44 --> 00:05:44 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Correct.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:45 Yep.
00:05:46 --> 00:05:48 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: And then what'd you go back to school for your master's?
00:05:49 --> 00:05:50 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: That was biology as well.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:50 And
00:05:51 --> 00:05:58 was focused on, um, looking out at how a performance of hygienic behavior it's the
00:05:59 --> 00:06:05 social immune behavior of the colony how that performance of that changes from One
00:06:05 --> 00:06:07 B all the way up to a full colony scale.
00:06:07 --> 00:06:14 So I and compared different group sizes across the scale and did part of
00:06:14 --> 00:06:18 that work in Israel and just published the findings of that last year.
00:06:18 --> 00:06:19 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, very good.
00:06:19 --> 00:06:19 Very good.
00:06:20 --> 00:06:21 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: so that was fun.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Yeah, so I think you said your mentor Jody?
00:06:26 --> 00:06:27 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yes.
00:06:27 --> 00:06:27 Yes.
00:06:28 --> 00:06:28 mentor.
00:06:28 --> 00:06:33 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: So at that point, before you got into bees,
00:06:33 --> 00:06:36 you said you got in that hive, you knew you'd be working with it.
00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 But what was the thought pattern before you ever started right there?
00:06:40 --> 00:06:45 Were you already leaning towards bees and thinking, yeah, this is interesting?
00:06:46 --> 00:06:47 And why?
00:06:47 --> 00:06:51 Does that go back to the insects with praying mantis and just kind
00:06:51 --> 00:06:55 of followed that path or, or how did you end up there at these?
00:06:56 --> 00:06:59 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah, I think well, I was already obsessed with bees
00:06:59 --> 00:07:05 before, like getting the, to actually go, you know, and she took me in the
00:07:05 --> 00:07:07 hive for the first time, I was like, oh, yeah, I've been ready for this.
00:07:07 --> 00:07:08 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yes.
00:07:08 --> 00:07:09 Yeah.
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: was ready to have a, you know, a life
00:07:11 --> 00:07:13 changing experience, I guess.
00:07:13 --> 00:07:18 But before that, I had done, you know, all the reading I could, and I actually saw
00:07:18 --> 00:07:23 one of the more sort of transformational things that I saw that I, I had watched
00:07:23 --> 00:07:29 the TED talk from Marla Spivak and, and she is a pioneer in, in our field and
00:07:29 --> 00:07:33 generally in bees, but more specifically for the behavior I ended up studying.
00:07:34 --> 00:07:37 So the way she delivered that talk, and it just kind of opened my eyes.
00:07:38 --> 00:07:39 You know, my world too.
00:07:40 --> 00:07:44 This is so interesting, this insect and all the behaviors that you know,
00:07:44 --> 00:07:46 I don't even know about yet, so,
00:07:46 --> 00:07:47 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yes.
00:07:47 --> 00:07:51 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: dug in and it was, it was on up from there.
00:07:52 --> 00:07:55 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: With your, your research and having,
00:07:55 --> 00:08:00 or looking into it, you knew a lot before you got into that first hive.
00:08:00 --> 00:08:00 Yeah.
00:08:01 --> 00:08:02 But you got into that first hive.
00:08:02 --> 00:08:06 Was there anything that surprised you while you stood there doing that?
00:08:08 --> 00:08:12 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Mmm, I think I was surprised, I mean, I'm a more, I
00:08:12 --> 00:08:17 guess that, that's evidence by how much research I put into it before actually
00:08:17 --> 00:08:24 going into it, but I didn't expect to have the emotional connection that I,
00:08:24 --> 00:08:25 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh yes.
00:08:25 --> 00:08:26 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: in the first time.
00:08:26 --> 00:08:33 So, when I think one of the craziest kind of cosmic event part of it was, was
00:08:33 --> 00:08:35 seeing a bee emerge for the first time.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:36 And
00:08:37 --> 00:08:39 I don't know, it was just something about watching it.
00:08:40 --> 00:08:45 emerge and crawl out and it goes to work and I don't know, so it was the hum of
00:08:45 --> 00:08:50 the hive and it just, I think beekeeping kind of, once I actually got into the
00:08:50 --> 00:08:55 hives came in my life at a really important time that I needed emotionally
00:08:55 --> 00:09:01 and personally, but you know, it became a, a way of intellectual exploration,
00:09:01 --> 00:09:05 but also Personal development too.
00:09:05 --> 00:09:10 So it, it really felt for me to be a career of it.
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 And, and just because I loved it.
00:09:13 --> 00:09:14 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh yes.
00:09:14 --> 00:09:20 That feeling when you're in the hive it's just crazy how people experience that.
00:09:20 --> 00:09:22 I know when I'm in my hives, it, it's just crazy.
00:09:23 --> 00:09:27 It totally, because you're, you're surrounded by bees and, and you're
00:09:27 --> 00:09:32 immersed in, in it, you totally forget about everything else.
00:09:32 --> 00:09:36 And that's, if you think about your, the best experiences or best moments
00:09:36 --> 00:09:38 in your life, that's the way they are.
00:09:39 --> 00:09:42 Everything else ceases to exist and you're just there.
00:09:42 --> 00:09:43 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yep.
00:09:43 --> 00:09:43 Yeah.
00:09:43 --> 00:09:44 That's the part too.
00:09:44 --> 00:09:48 You can't help, but be, you know, locked in like that.
00:09:48 --> 00:09:49 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh yeah.
00:09:49 --> 00:09:54 Did you get your first sting on that first day?
00:09:54 --> 00:09:56 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: They kind of came all at once.
00:09:57 --> 00:09:57 I
00:09:57 --> 00:09:58 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: yes.
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: It was on one of those first times I was
00:10:00 --> 00:10:03 installing a package and it was brutal.
00:10:04 --> 00:10:06 I probably got 60,
00:10:06 --> 00:10:07 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yes.
00:10:08 --> 00:10:08 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: on my legs.
00:10:09 --> 00:10:14 and, yeah, my mentor, there were a couple times, those first few times getting
00:10:14 --> 00:10:15 in the hives where I had heat stroke.
00:10:16 --> 00:10:17 Yeah, I got stung all those times.
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 We went and worked in Africanized bees, and
00:10:20 --> 00:10:21 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yes.
00:10:21 --> 00:10:24 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: got stung, like, 150 times.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:27 And she sat me down one time and said Phoebe, I don't know if you're just
00:10:27 --> 00:10:32 getting baptized in fire, or if maybe you need to think of another career path.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:37 I remember I just cried the whole way back from her house
00:10:37 --> 00:10:39 because I was like, no, this has
00:10:39 --> 00:10:40 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: This, this,
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: They me.
00:10:43 --> 00:10:44 So I stuck with it.
00:10:45 --> 00:10:46 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Yeah, well, very good.
00:10:46 --> 00:10:46 Yeah.
00:10:47 --> 00:10:51 And then it took you a number of years before you got your first hives.
00:10:52 --> 00:10:57 When you got your first hive, what did you decide to get and how did you get started?
00:10:57 --> 00:10:59 I mean, did you go by Langstroth?
00:10:59 --> 00:11:01 You go with Deeps, Tens?
00:11:01 --> 00:11:02 Did you order a package?
00:11:02 --> 00:11:03 Did you get nukes?
00:11:03 --> 00:11:04 Did you catch a swarm?
00:11:06 --> 00:11:07 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah, that's a great question.
00:11:07 --> 00:11:14 So I was picking up packages for Our research hives and he said that he
00:11:14 --> 00:11:16 this was, let me see, when was this?
00:11:16 --> 00:11:22 think in 2021 when I got these and he said that he got more packages than,
00:11:22 --> 00:11:26 you know, people had ordered and he'd give me a deal on these other two.
00:11:26 --> 00:11:29 And, you know, at this point I had just moved to my new place
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31 and I had some backyard access.
00:11:31 --> 00:11:32 So I said, okay, this is it.
00:11:32 --> 00:11:36 I'm going to get, and I started with eight frame equipment, even though I, and I,
00:11:36 --> 00:11:40 I switched all the way over to 10 now, but it was just kind of like, this is.
00:11:40 --> 00:11:42 This is the moment, this is when it can
00:11:42 --> 00:11:43 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yeah.
00:11:43 --> 00:11:46 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: so I took two packages and started them in my backyard.
00:11:46 --> 00:11:51 And there is an HOA here, which I ended up paying for that decision later.
00:11:52 --> 00:11:58 And then crazily enough, my my house got shot up and the bullet like went
00:11:58 --> 00:12:00 straight in between my two hives and then
00:12:01 --> 00:12:02 to move them.
00:12:02 --> 00:12:06 But it was actually, I'm really glad, not glad that my house got shot
00:12:06 --> 00:12:10 but I'm glad that that experience happened because.
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 You know, with having to move them because it jump started the business.
00:12:14 --> 00:12:17 You know, I, the way I was doing, or going to do it, had I been able to
00:12:17 --> 00:12:21 keep them in the backyard was, okay, these are my two hives just for me.
00:12:21 --> 00:12:22 And.
00:12:22 --> 00:12:27 You know, but then once I could no longer keep them a place where it was more
00:12:27 --> 00:12:31 convenient, then I was like, okay, I need to, if I'm going to move them here
00:12:31 --> 00:12:36 to this property, how can I, you know, make this a revenue generating model?
00:12:36 --> 00:12:40 And I grew the hives and a beekeeper really helped me out with with
00:12:40 --> 00:12:44 providing those nucs and, you know, I, I work for him sometimes too.
00:12:44 --> 00:12:47 And so it just really, you know, kind of built up quick
00:12:47 --> 00:12:50 all because I had to move them.
00:12:50 --> 00:12:53 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, it caused a little bit of a mind shift
00:12:53 --> 00:12:55 there because of the location.
00:12:56 --> 00:12:56 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah.
00:12:57 --> 00:13:00 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Yeah, that, that's actually a great point, you
00:13:00 --> 00:13:03 know, when they're in the backyard and you just can run out there and
00:13:03 --> 00:13:05 they're just kinda part of the backyard.
00:13:06 --> 00:13:11 But if they're somewhere else, then it takes time and effort to get there.
00:13:11 --> 00:13:16 You start realizing, well, what's actually the cost of doing this?
00:13:16 --> 00:13:16 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Right.
00:13:16 --> 00:13:17 Yep.
00:13:17 --> 00:13:22 And then, you know, it justifies being more efficient and investing in certain
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 things to help you do those jobs easier.
00:13:25 --> 00:13:29 And then, well, now I need some more hives and, okay, what products can
00:13:29 --> 00:13:31 I make or what services can I offer?
00:13:31 --> 00:13:36 And, you know, so now a few years later, it's it's kind of taking over
00:13:37 --> 00:13:42 you know, what my main job is, and now I'm, my plan this year is to invest more
00:13:42 --> 00:13:46 in that business and kind of grow out more of the consultative services part
00:13:47 --> 00:13:48 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yes.
00:13:48 --> 00:13:49 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: in Queens and stuff like that.
00:13:51 --> 00:13:51 see.
00:13:51 --> 00:13:52 We're not there yet.
00:13:53 --> 00:13:55 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: It'll be exciting to see where you go with that.
00:13:56 --> 00:14:00 One thing you mentioned there, you started with 8 frames.
00:14:00 --> 00:14:02 Why did you go with 8 frames?
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: I think that was, he had the
00:14:04 --> 00:14:06 equipment ready and painted.
00:14:06 --> 00:14:07 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, that's what, yeah.
00:14:08 --> 00:14:09 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: it was a convenience thing.
00:14:10 --> 00:14:11 yeah, I, I've always preferred.
00:14:11 --> 00:14:14 I mean, I do like the, you get a little bit more room with the eight.
00:14:16 --> 00:14:20 you know, with the, with frames and if you feed frame feeders, I feel like you get,
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22 you know, a little bit extra room there.
00:14:23 --> 00:14:28 But yeah, my 10 is for me, it's just easier if it's all the same equipment.
00:14:28 --> 00:14:28 And,
00:14:30 --> 00:14:33 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: So do you run deep tens, and then, do you use any
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 honey supers, or are you using all deeps?
00:14:36 --> 00:14:38 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: My friend does all deeps and I, I
00:14:38 --> 00:14:40 don't think I have the back for it.
00:14:40 --> 00:14:41 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Right, yeah.
00:14:41 --> 00:14:44 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: yeah, so typically usually run double
00:14:44 --> 00:14:46 deeps for my brood chamber.
00:14:46 --> 00:14:52 But I think I'll explore some single deep, single deep brood management this year.
00:14:53 --> 00:14:54 And then I'll do medium supers.
00:14:55 --> 00:14:56 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, medium supers.
00:14:56 --> 00:14:56 Yeah.
00:14:58 --> 00:15:02 With your hives, I think you mentioned 21 was about then.
00:15:02 --> 00:15:05 So did, when did you get your first honey harvest?
00:15:06 --> 00:15:09 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Let's see, I think that was 22 then.
00:15:10 --> 00:15:12 Yeah, hard to believe we're in 2025.
00:15:12 --> 00:15:13 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: It is.
00:15:13 --> 00:15:14 I agree.
00:15:15 --> 00:15:17 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: I'm sitting here looking at the date.
00:15:17 --> 00:15:22 So I think, yeah, it was, 22 was my first, and that was, that was
00:15:22 --> 00:15:24 very small harvest that year.
00:15:25 --> 00:15:28 And then 2023, I expanded quite a bit.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:31 And then this past year was, was a big year too.
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Did you find a, did you have enough honey
00:15:35 --> 00:15:36 to start selling honey at that time?
00:15:38 --> 00:15:41 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah, and so kind of my strategy at that time,
00:15:41 --> 00:15:46 because beekeeping, or at least that business was not my full time job,
00:15:46 --> 00:15:47 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Right.
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: time had a a startup with another bee
00:15:50 --> 00:15:54 scientist and we were in the process of launching a new product for beekeepers.
00:15:54 --> 00:15:56 So that was kind of my main focus.
00:15:56 --> 00:16:00 And then, you know, even though I was beekeeping there too, that, you know, for
00:16:00 --> 00:16:06 my own hives and kind of developing that more as a honey brand or like a boutique,
00:16:06 --> 00:16:08 not boutique, really, I, I, I don't know.
00:16:08 --> 00:16:11 I, I have kind of different styles with my beekeepers.
00:16:12 --> 00:16:13 marketing.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:18 I have kind of a metal kind of marketing with the honey and then, you know, kind
00:16:18 --> 00:16:23 of another, but so this was just kind of a different expression and yeah, I can't
00:16:23 --> 00:16:27 remember what, what the question was or why I was talking about that before,
00:16:27 --> 00:16:27 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Well, well,
00:16:28 --> 00:16:31 Path to selling honey and how that went for you.
00:16:32 --> 00:16:33 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: oh, okay, that's right.
00:16:34 --> 00:16:35 Yeah, so my first year.
00:16:36 --> 00:16:37 I did have enough to sell.
00:16:37 --> 00:16:42 I sold at just a few markets and just here and there where they popped up and I made
00:16:42 --> 00:16:46 all my labels by hand and that was a lot,
00:16:46 --> 00:16:47 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh yeah.
00:16:47 --> 00:16:47 Yeah.
00:16:48 --> 00:16:51 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: and writing everything, and that did, that did pretty
00:16:51 --> 00:16:55 good, I think, as anyone knows who does markets, you kind of never know what
00:16:55 --> 00:16:59 you're going to get and it is a lot of work to stay dedicated to it, but
00:16:59 --> 00:17:04 you can build up, you know, a reliable customer base, customer base from there.
00:17:04 --> 00:17:08 So I, I know what I was saying now with having to balance my honey sales
00:17:08 --> 00:17:13 with you know, my full time job was, I was kind of looking for more ways
00:17:13 --> 00:17:18 to sell the honey at wholesale or bulk pricing just so I didn't have to.
00:17:19 --> 00:17:20 so much time into bottling
00:17:21 --> 00:17:21 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yes.
00:17:22 --> 00:17:25 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: so that was effective those first couple years
00:17:25 --> 00:17:29 and you know now that I'm looking to Establish it more as a brand.
00:17:29 --> 00:17:37 I'm gonna Change how I allocate my honey sales this year if that makes sense
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Are you selling any other products beyond honey?
00:17:42 --> 00:17:42 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: This year.
00:17:42 --> 00:17:48 Yeah, I've done some beeswax stuff Just lip balms and the lotion bars I like.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:55 Um, one, one kind of big part of my revenue model is I keep the bees, some
00:17:55 --> 00:17:59 of my bees at a winery, and he takes that honey and makes mead with it.
00:17:59 --> 00:18:00 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yes.
00:18:00 --> 00:18:03 Oh, yes.
00:18:03 --> 00:18:06 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: This past year was his first large scale mead production.
00:18:08 --> 00:18:13 and then I, you know, I kind of do, Hive tour, tours that I'll
00:18:13 --> 00:18:16 do and some consulting stuff.
00:18:16 --> 00:18:21 And, you know, this year I think I'll do, you know, I spent all this time learning
00:18:21 --> 00:18:25 about selective breeding and queen rearing, but that's something I have yet
00:18:26 --> 00:18:31 to take on myself, but so that's kind of where I'm going this year of establishing
00:18:32 --> 00:18:39 good genetics in my apiary and getting my, getting my mating and queen rearing next.
00:18:41 --> 00:18:44 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Making mead, I've talked to, to someone that, if I
00:18:45 --> 00:18:49 expand my apiary where I can have enough honey, they're going to make some meads,
00:18:49 --> 00:18:54 which sounds really exciting to me to, to venture in there just on a hobby
00:18:54 --> 00:18:56 scale and try it and see how it goes.
00:18:57 --> 00:18:57 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: I'm excited.
00:18:57 --> 00:18:58 I will.
00:18:58 --> 00:19:02 I'm curious to try it on my own, but I'm also in a group on Facebook, and I
00:19:02 --> 00:19:04 see all kinds of stuff happening that.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07 I'm not sure I would know what to do with it.
00:19:07 --> 00:19:08 So if somebody else can make
00:19:08 --> 00:19:09 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Make it, yes.
00:19:09 --> 00:19:09 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: I
00:19:10 --> 00:19:13 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Yeah, that works out and then you don't
00:19:13 --> 00:19:16 have all the risk and all the equipment and everything to do it.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:18 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah, because like we were talking about
00:19:18 --> 00:19:22 earlier, I know I would go out and been trying to make myself not buy
00:19:23 --> 00:19:25 the mead making kits and all that
00:19:25 --> 00:19:27 easy and so much fun.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:30 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, I, I fully get that.
00:19:30 --> 00:19:30 Yeah.
00:19:30 --> 00:19:31 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah.
00:19:33 --> 00:19:35 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Let's jump back just a little bit to your
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 bees and you really expanded them.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 How did you expand your apiary?
00:19:41 --> 00:19:44 You mentioned you hadn't really done queen rearing yet.
00:19:45 --> 00:19:46 You're gonna do more of that.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:48 Did you bring in packages?
00:19:48 --> 00:19:49 Did you do splits?
00:19:50 --> 00:19:51 How'd you do the expansion?
00:19:52 --> 00:19:55 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah, so my when I really expanded then,
00:19:55 --> 00:19:59 I think that was 2023, I believe.
00:19:59 --> 00:20:04 And a beekeeper that I had for, for, you know, a couple of years before
00:20:04 --> 00:20:06 that he's grown his outfit quite a bit.
00:20:07 --> 00:20:11 And he said that, you know, when it, when I was going to get ready to go
00:20:11 --> 00:20:15 full time with my bees, that he would give me 20 nucs that I could get started
00:20:16 --> 00:20:16 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh yes.
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: so that was a great boost.
00:20:19 --> 00:20:24 You know, I, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today if it weren't for, for him.
00:20:24 --> 00:20:25 You know, supplying those.
00:20:26 --> 00:20:29 So that got me started in that, 23.
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 And then I had great overwintering that year.
00:20:32 --> 00:20:34 And they came out really strong.
00:20:34 --> 00:20:34 So I
00:20:34 --> 00:20:35 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh yes.
00:20:35 --> 00:20:39 Oh yes.
00:20:39 --> 00:20:42 Oh yes.
00:20:43 --> 00:20:47 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: I have equipment all around me and trying to like
00:20:47 --> 00:20:49 build everything, you know, my backyard.
00:20:49 --> 00:20:54 So it's just, I don't have a very good setup right now and being able to try
00:20:54 --> 00:20:56 and build my equipment here on time.
00:20:56 --> 00:21:00 So I just had some operational issues this last year with trying to
00:21:00 --> 00:21:02 work out of my house and scale it.
00:21:03 --> 00:21:05 And, so.
00:21:05 --> 00:21:10 I had to clean up a lot of my own swarms and that was more so than
00:21:10 --> 00:21:14 any of the, you know, what, eight years of beekeeping before that.
00:21:15 --> 00:21:21 It's just because I had, it was funny to feel like I was having like a growing
00:21:21 --> 00:21:25 pains, even though it was very strange of, okay, I've been doing this, you
00:21:25 --> 00:21:30 know, I know what I'm doing, but try, I had a very different set of challenges.
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32 working out of here than before.
00:21:32 --> 00:21:36 So, this year, yeah, we're going to split even more.
00:21:36 --> 00:21:41 This year I have a lot of equipment ready some, some new yards and contracts that
00:21:41 --> 00:21:43 I'm working with to, to place the bees.
00:21:43 --> 00:21:46 So be a, should be a big year of expansion.
00:21:48 --> 00:21:51 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: You mentioned you're gonna try and raise some queens.
00:21:51 --> 00:21:52 You mentioned splits.
00:21:53 --> 00:21:55 What's your plan of action to do that this year?
00:21:57 --> 00:22:00 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah, that's I'm still working on, well, I
00:22:00 --> 00:22:05 know what I'm, I, I know that I'll get of too, too off in the weeds about it.
00:22:05 --> 00:22:08 Yeah, I'm going to split what I have coming out of winter.
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11 And then I have some of the new access yards.
00:22:12 --> 00:22:15 I can make my splits and I have to kind of set up a teaching
00:22:15 --> 00:22:17 yard because I also teach,
00:22:17 --> 00:22:17 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh yeah.
00:22:18 --> 00:22:19 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: beekeeping at a local college.
00:22:19 --> 00:22:25 So my plan is to split as many as I can and take some there for the teaching and
00:22:25 --> 00:22:28 then bring them back to the other yards that I'll have set up as my mating yards.
00:22:29 --> 00:22:31 So, we'll see.
00:22:31 --> 00:22:36 I'm about to check the bees here probably tomorrow and start on how,
00:22:36 --> 00:22:40 how many splits and, and, you know, I can make and start planning from there.
00:22:40 --> 00:22:40 But yeah,
00:22:42 --> 00:22:45 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: This weekend coming up, of course this will be released
00:22:45 --> 00:22:51 next week, so, but this weekend it's like 70 degrees here on Saturday and Sunday.
00:22:51 --> 00:22:54 Oh
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: time of, you know, a lot of people here in the
00:22:57 --> 00:22:59 South or new beekeepers think, Oh, good.
00:22:59 --> 00:23:03 We're out of, we're out of winter and we can start, you know, and that's
00:23:03 --> 00:23:05 kind of where the danger comes in.
00:23:05 --> 00:23:05 As the
00:23:05 --> 00:23:07 birding and.
00:23:08 --> 00:23:12 Yeah, they can go through food real quick and start, you know, especially
00:23:12 --> 00:23:13 once the cold comes back in again.
00:23:13 --> 00:23:18 So, you know, now's the time to get out and check, see how their food's looking.
00:23:20 --> 00:23:22 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: How do you plan on doing those splits?
00:23:22 --> 00:23:27 Are you just, are you going to, to divide it into two hives, let them
00:23:27 --> 00:23:31 raise their own queen, or are you going to control what the new queen is?
00:23:32 --> 00:23:36 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: I may have some, so I'm working with, um, their, this
00:23:36 --> 00:23:38 is called the Northern Queen Initiative.
00:23:38 --> 00:23:41 It's a part of the SBGMI Guild.
00:23:41 --> 00:23:42 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, okay.
00:23:42 --> 00:23:45 Oh, yeah.
00:23:45 --> 00:23:47 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: are all over the country.
00:23:47 --> 00:23:47 So.
00:23:49 --> 00:23:54 I have been working with James talking about maybe how we could start a kind of
00:23:54 --> 00:23:56 model like that here in the southeast.
00:23:56 --> 00:24:02 And so, know, one thing that is a goal for them is to be able to select
00:24:02 --> 00:24:07 and breed for their local Queens but it's the time to, to rear them that
00:24:07 --> 00:24:11 they're, you know, because they're still in winter when we're, you know,
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14 we'll have already gotten done a round of grafts at least before that,
00:24:14 --> 00:24:16 even warm enough up there.
00:24:16 --> 00:24:21 So we're talking about, you know, maybe he ships me some queens down here I can
00:24:21 --> 00:24:24 graft off the, the F1s and send them back.
00:24:24 --> 00:24:29 So I may have some Control over the genetics, but also kind of working
00:24:29 --> 00:24:31 with other beekeepers in the area.
00:24:31 --> 00:24:36 And I think kind of a co op model in agriculture in general, but in beekeeping
00:24:36 --> 00:24:37 specifically is really important.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:42 so all of us are working together to source genetics from different
00:24:42 --> 00:24:45 areas and maintain genetic diversity.
00:24:46 --> 00:24:50 But also get in some, you know, different stuff that we might like, you
00:24:50 --> 00:24:56 know, Caucasians are really good for production pole lines and just so some
00:24:56 --> 00:25:00 different stuff that we're trying and you know, swapping around to each other.
00:25:00 --> 00:25:00 So
00:25:01 --> 00:25:03 buffer us against losses and.
00:25:03 --> 00:25:05 you know, maintains the diversity.
00:25:06 --> 00:25:09 So I think I will have some it'll be interesting to see.
00:25:09 --> 00:25:11 So all this is going to kind of come together, I think, in the next
00:25:11 --> 00:25:14 month, but, know, that's beekeeping.
00:25:14 --> 00:25:16 I'm always flying by the seat of my pants, I feel like.
00:25:18 --> 00:25:20 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: You know, I talk a lot about this.
00:25:20 --> 00:25:24 So often, I get in the middle of something before I'm really
00:25:24 --> 00:25:25 ready to be in the middle of it.
00:25:25 --> 00:25:26 I'm like, Oh!
00:25:26 --> 00:25:30 I have these animals coming here today, I gotta go work on a pen.
00:25:31 --> 00:25:35 I, I, I've gotta work a little bit better on that, but I, I do feel that.
00:25:35 --> 00:25:39 Would you characterize your, your bees as mainly Italians what
00:25:39 --> 00:25:42 you have, or just some local?
00:25:44 --> 00:25:46 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah, they're Italian, sourced
00:25:46 --> 00:25:48 locally so the let me see.
00:25:49 --> 00:25:53 When I got them from my friend Ashby, who, the beekeeper he got
00:25:53 --> 00:25:57 them from is Cameron Spath out of Honeystrong in South Carolina.
00:25:58 --> 00:26:03 So, Ashby had made, grafted, you know, we had done some hygienic testing with
00:26:03 --> 00:26:08 those, . Ashby grafted off the best, and then that was what I and, you know,
00:26:08 --> 00:26:10 many of his other new customers got.
00:26:10 --> 00:26:15 So, pretty local stock you know, I, I really like these bees, they brood
00:26:15 --> 00:26:21 up really well build up quick, honey production was good gentle, and I noticed,
00:26:21 --> 00:26:22 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yeah.
00:26:22 --> 00:26:23 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: know, for a, for a thing like hygienic
00:26:23 --> 00:26:29 behavior, if you are selecting for it, you may, you're still going to
00:26:29 --> 00:26:32 see variability among your hives.
00:26:32 --> 00:26:36 So I didn't test them for hygiene specifically like, you know, like
00:26:36 --> 00:26:40 I've done in the past, but just visually, you know, that there were
00:26:40 --> 00:26:43 some in there that were maintaining mite or keeping mite loads down.
00:26:44 --> 00:26:45 I was seeing uncapping.
00:26:45 --> 00:26:48 So, you know, I, I was, I was pretty happy with those bees.
00:26:49 --> 00:26:50 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, very good.
00:26:51 --> 00:26:57 One, one thing you mentioned throughout this is working with other beekeepers.
00:26:57 --> 00:26:59 Would you say that's a big part of what you're doing?
00:27:00 --> 00:27:01 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: A hundred percent.
00:27:01 --> 00:27:02 Yeah.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:03 I, I feel like.
00:27:04 --> 00:27:08 with the internet being well, take it or leave it.
00:27:08 --> 00:27:09 There's good and bad to it.
00:27:09 --> 00:27:10 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Right.
00:27:10 --> 00:27:14 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: I have learned so much about, about beekeeping
00:27:14 --> 00:27:21 just from other areas, other geographic regions, the, the, the The challenges
00:27:21 --> 00:27:25 that people face, their different scales, how they're scaling their
00:27:25 --> 00:27:29 business from, feeding, queen rearing.
00:27:29 --> 00:27:34 So, I've learned a lot from being able to connect with those folks and you know,
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 just see what they're talking about.
00:27:37 --> 00:27:37 But,
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 I've also maintained a lot of close relationships with.
00:27:42 --> 00:27:43 all kinds of different beekeepers.
00:27:43 --> 00:27:49 So I feel like more connected we are and the more you know, going to conferences
00:27:49 --> 00:27:54 and that network and being able to talk about the industry or the, the problems
00:27:54 --> 00:27:59 and challenges that we're facing, I feel like only makes our industry
00:27:59 --> 00:28:00 stronger when we're more connected.
00:28:00 --> 00:28:04 So that's something I feel like is important to me of You know,
00:28:04 --> 00:28:09 I, I always kind of feel like I'm, not quite in the research realm.
00:28:09 --> 00:28:10 I'm not quite a beekeeper.
00:28:10 --> 00:28:14 I am a beekeeper, but I'm not, I'm never going to be a commercial beekeeper
00:28:15 --> 00:28:19 because that's just simply not where my skill set lies of scaling to that level.
00:28:19 --> 00:28:24 But so I think I have kind of a unique, even though I don't quite fit in a
00:28:24 --> 00:28:28 specific category, but I'm coming to the industry, I think, with kind of a
00:28:28 --> 00:28:35 unique, perspective and type of rounded experience that, you know, I I feel like
00:28:35 --> 00:28:39 my title, I don't, I'd never really quite know what it is in beekeeping, but I
00:28:39 --> 00:28:45 know what my role is and being able to use My network and connections and and
00:28:45 --> 00:28:49 try to turn that around to hopefully make the most good for the industry.
00:28:49 --> 00:28:53 So We'll see what that leads to.
00:28:54 --> 00:28:56 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: I, I think that's great.
00:28:56 --> 00:28:57 I, I'll be honest.
00:28:57 --> 00:29:01 The networking part, This is going to be crazy to say with a
00:29:01 --> 00:29:05 podcast, but when I think about Regent Divag, and I think about
00:29:05 --> 00:29:07 beekeeping, that's not my strong suit.
00:29:07 --> 00:29:10 Talking to people puts me out of my comfort zone.
00:29:11 --> 00:29:13 Just, I'm more of an introvert.
00:29:13 --> 00:29:17 I know it's crazy when I do this, and my wife says, yeah, no one knows that
00:29:17 --> 00:29:19 you are because you talk to everyone.
00:29:19 --> 00:29:24 But it's really outside my comfort zone, going to it takes me a little bit of work
00:29:24 --> 00:29:26 to, to engage in those conversations.
00:29:26 --> 00:29:32 And I always know when I do it, the benefits are so wonderful.
00:29:32 --> 00:29:36 It's just sometimes getting there and doing it is, is a little difficult for me.
00:29:36 --> 00:29:37 And I'm a homebody.
00:29:37 --> 00:29:42 I mean, I'll be, I'll look at the calendar and I'll be like, Oh, I really should go.
00:29:42 --> 00:29:46 This is, so there's bee club that meets an hour away from me.
00:29:47 --> 00:29:51 And that Monday night I'm always like, Oh, I just want to stay home, but
00:29:51 --> 00:29:54 I know if I go, I really enjoy it.
00:29:55 --> 00:29:57 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: yeah, it can be hard to one.
00:29:57 --> 00:29:58 It's sometimes too.
00:29:58 --> 00:30:04 It feels like You know, I know I want to be more involved in my local
00:30:04 --> 00:30:09 club this year or at least trying to to go to more meetings, but I
00:30:09 --> 00:30:11 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yes.
00:30:11 --> 00:30:14 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: that time of night or, you know, I feel like
00:30:14 --> 00:30:19 most of the time I wake up and I'm I'm talking to beekeepers on the phone.
00:30:19 --> 00:30:20 I'm writing about bees.
00:30:20 --> 00:30:21 I'm reading about bees.
00:30:21 --> 00:30:24 And so sometimes it's just like, you know what, can I watch a true
00:30:24 --> 00:30:26 crime documentary or something?
00:30:26 --> 00:30:27 I just need to not.
00:30:28 --> 00:30:29 Talk about bees right now,
00:30:30 --> 00:30:34 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: I like to, my wife and I like to characterize it
00:30:34 --> 00:30:38 by the morning us is very different from the evening us, because the
00:30:38 --> 00:30:42 morning us we're talking about, Oh, we should have this for supper.
00:30:42 --> 00:30:43 We'll do this.
00:30:44 --> 00:30:47 And then evening self is like, Oh, I don't want to cook.
00:30:47 --> 00:30:48 I don't want to go anywhere.
00:30:49 --> 00:30:52 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: of that, especially in the winter too.
00:30:52 --> 00:30:53 It makes it even harder.
00:30:53 --> 00:30:54 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, it does.
00:30:54 --> 00:30:55 Yes.
00:30:57 --> 00:31:02 In talking about those connections and And what role the internet played in,
00:31:03 --> 00:31:05 in fostering some of those connections.
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08 Were there some resources that you really found beneficial that people,
00:31:09 --> 00:31:10 you would encourage people to use?
00:31:12 --> 00:31:12 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah.
00:31:12 --> 00:31:16 I think for beekeeping specifically, BeeSource is a great, that's like
00:31:17 --> 00:31:24 beekeeping Facebook, and then actual Facebook, I would say you know, and
00:31:24 --> 00:31:26 that kind of happened twofold of.
00:31:27 --> 00:31:32 that I, through talking with beekeepers and I just became more
00:31:32 --> 00:31:34 and more, more friends with more
00:31:35 --> 00:31:39 And so, you know, just what they post but also being involved in the groups too.
00:31:39 --> 00:31:41 So that, that has helped a lot.
00:31:42 --> 00:31:44 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Are there some particular groups
00:31:44 --> 00:31:46 that are, are really beneficial?
00:31:46 --> 00:31:49 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: I think, for, for Facebook
00:31:49 --> 00:31:50 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Yeah, for Facebook.
00:31:50 --> 00:31:53 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: a member, being a member of your state
00:31:53 --> 00:31:57 organization's Facebook, because that'll give you the most, you know, local
00:31:57 --> 00:31:59 and up to date information for you.
00:32:01 --> 00:32:07 I enjoy some of the beginner beekeeping groups because I think it's I mean,
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09 there is, there's a lot of stuff on there that, you know, people
00:32:09 --> 00:32:11 asking for advice and, and things.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:17 So I think it's interesting to read, you know, see that concept of ask 10
00:32:17 --> 00:32:18 beekeepers one question, get 11 answers.
00:32:19 --> 00:32:23 But, you know, and a lot of that ends up boiling down to be about the same anyway.
00:32:23 --> 00:32:27 But it's so it's, it's interesting to me to read what people are suggesting
00:32:27 --> 00:32:32 for different problems, the problems that arise, because, you know, after
00:32:32 --> 00:32:36 10 years of doing this, I'm not going to be seeing this with the same eyes
00:32:36 --> 00:32:39 as somebody, of course, I can know what to recommend and things like that.
00:32:39 --> 00:32:45 But so it just helps me to be more mindful of when interacting with newer beekeepers.
00:32:46 --> 00:32:47 but I think.
00:32:47 --> 00:32:50 Being on the queen breeders forum is really important.
00:32:51 --> 00:32:53 And then some, you know, think of some larger scale.
00:32:54 --> 00:32:57 I, I wouldn't, like, recommend a commercial Facebook,
00:32:57 --> 00:32:58 Facebook beekeeping group.
00:32:58 --> 00:33:02 But, you know, something that's, sideliners are joining and
00:33:02 --> 00:33:05 they're talking about you know, I scaled up my feed rig to this.
00:33:05 --> 00:33:06 This has made
00:33:06 --> 00:33:07 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yeah.
00:33:07 --> 00:33:10 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: So, I think that kind of gives a good mix of of
00:33:11 --> 00:33:12 beekeeping from different perspectives.
00:33:14 --> 00:33:15 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Those are wonderful suggestions.
00:33:15 --> 00:33:22 And I always, you know, at first, Facebook, you know, the negatives of
00:33:22 --> 00:33:26 it and everything, but basically my feed on Facebook is all the groups
00:33:26 --> 00:33:31 I'm part of and I, I find that really valuable that I didn't anticipate
00:33:31 --> 00:33:33 it being as valuable as it is.
00:33:33 --> 00:33:35 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: I know, that's the only reason why I'm keeping
00:33:36 --> 00:33:37 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Right, exactly.
00:33:38 --> 00:33:40 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: I'm gonna miss my updates on Grandma's canning group?
00:33:40 --> 00:33:41 Come on, I
00:33:41 --> 00:33:42 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Right.
00:33:44 --> 00:33:45 Exactly.
00:33:46 --> 00:33:49 To get started with the beyond the buzz, let's talk a little
00:33:49 --> 00:33:51 bit about hygienic behavior.
00:33:51 --> 00:33:55 And first, just so we're all on the same page, when we talk about hygienic
00:33:55 --> 00:33:57 behavior, what are we talking about?
00:33:58 --> 00:34:02 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: So this is a behavior that is performed mostly by
00:34:02 --> 00:34:08 middle aged bees, and essentially it is the detection, uncapping, and removal
00:34:08 --> 00:34:14 of brood that is unhealthy or that would pose a threat in some way to her sisters
00:34:14 --> 00:34:19 if she emerged and spread, you know, the virus's disease or, or mites that she had.
00:34:20 --> 00:34:27 Bees will, and depending on is at the core of the issue, the brood is able to use
00:34:27 --> 00:34:33 pheromones to communicate to nurses that, recruit them to the area and essentially
00:34:33 --> 00:34:37 give them more information once they uncap it, inspect the brood and, you
00:34:37 --> 00:34:39 know, a few things can happen from there.
00:34:39 --> 00:34:44 In the case of if it's a mite you know, they'll uncap and sometimes
00:34:44 --> 00:34:49 recap or they can remove the, the brood too if it's too diseased.
00:34:49 --> 00:34:53 Sometimes they cannibalize so even though that sounds, you know, It's
00:34:53 --> 00:34:54 kind of harsh for the baby bees.
00:34:54 --> 00:34:57 It's a way of the colony protecting itself.
00:34:57 --> 00:34:59 It's a part of the colony's immune system.
00:35:00 --> 00:35:03 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: And with the hygienic behavior,
00:35:03 --> 00:35:04 you mentioned testing for it.
00:35:05 --> 00:35:08 How do you test for hygienic behavior in your bees?
00:35:09 --> 00:35:09 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Sure.
00:35:10 --> 00:35:15 Yeah, there's a few different ways to do it and they all range in skill
00:35:15 --> 00:35:18 level, access, price, things like that.
00:35:18 --> 00:35:21 So, and I would say before performing any tests.
00:35:21 --> 00:35:26 You want to make sure that you're starting with a good selected stock first.
00:35:26 --> 00:35:32 And I caution against that because, you know, hygiene, hygiene testing is, I
00:35:32 --> 00:35:37 know is something that appeals to more of the bee nerds or people that, you know,
00:35:37 --> 00:35:41 always want to find more information out about their bees, but it is quite
00:35:41 --> 00:35:45 investment upfront in the knowledge and skills that, you know, to do it.
00:35:45 --> 00:35:48 And so you don't want to do all that and then not really get anything.
00:35:49 --> 00:35:52 back that, you know, you can breed off that stock.
00:35:52 --> 00:35:58 So I would say source some good stock first of a reputable hygienic breeder
00:35:58 --> 00:36:02 but then once you get to the testing phase more commonly what's used or
00:36:03 --> 00:36:06 historically what's been used a lot is the freeze killed brood test.
00:36:07 --> 00:36:13 And so that can be done with using liquid nitrogen You pour it onto a
00:36:13 --> 00:36:18 section of capped brood and leave them to work on that for 24 hours.
00:36:18 --> 00:36:22 And if they uncap 95 percent or more, then that's a hygienic colony.
00:36:22 --> 00:36:25 You can also, there's a modified version of that.
00:36:25 --> 00:36:28 You could cut out a section of brood freeze that, pop it back
00:36:28 --> 00:36:30 in, and it's the same criteria.
00:36:31 --> 00:36:34 something that Sorry, there'll be a couple of them.
00:36:35 --> 00:36:40 I'll make it brief though, but typically what is done in Europe is the pin killed
00:36:40 --> 00:36:45 brood test, and it's a pin that you pierce through the center of capped brood cells,
00:36:46 --> 00:36:48 and assess removal of that after 24 hours.
00:36:50 --> 00:36:52 and then for the mite focused hygienic test.
00:36:53 --> 00:36:58 would be the Harbo test, and essentially that is opening up lots of cells
00:36:58 --> 00:37:03 manually and pulling out brood to inspect for non reproductive mites.
00:37:03 --> 00:37:03 So,
00:37:04 --> 00:37:04 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, okay.
00:37:05 --> 00:37:08 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: for the colony's natural ability to preferentially
00:37:09 --> 00:37:13 remove reproductive mites as a way of suppressing mite reproduction.
00:37:13 --> 00:37:16 And then lastly, the test that I worked on.
00:37:16 --> 00:37:19 And this was some work done with Dr.
00:37:19 --> 00:37:21 Kara Waggoner out of UNC Greensboro.
00:37:22 --> 00:37:26 essentially this is a pheromone test that we released just last
00:37:26 --> 00:37:31 year about a year ago now, and this is taking those pheromones that I
00:37:31 --> 00:37:37 talked about and applying them to a section of capped brood and measuring
00:37:37 --> 00:37:39 their uncapping after two hours.
00:37:40 --> 00:37:40 And so
00:37:41 --> 00:37:46 test kind of sits in between, it more measures their ability to respond to
00:37:46 --> 00:37:51 stressed brood rather than a brood that is dead, like in the case of the freeze
00:37:51 --> 00:37:55 killed brood test, which, you know, that selects for a slightly different
00:37:55 --> 00:38:01 mechanism of hygiene compared to like the Harbo or, you know, or even UBO which
00:38:01 --> 00:38:03 are to be different mechanisms there.
00:38:05 --> 00:38:07 So I told you that's my, that's my nerdy topic.
00:38:07 --> 00:38:09 Okay.
00:38:09 --> 00:38:10 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: It's wonderful.
00:38:11 --> 00:38:16 With the, the different methods there, you mentioned just a while ago that
00:38:16 --> 00:38:22 the, the selection for bees that are removing those brood that's dead is
00:38:22 --> 00:38:24 going to be different than stressed.
00:38:24 --> 00:38:31 If you are doing a pin poke in it, is that stressing the brood that gives off
00:38:31 --> 00:38:37 that same pheromone, or is that going to be more like the kill or the freeze test?
00:38:37 --> 00:38:38 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah, great question.
00:38:38 --> 00:38:42 I would say, and there's been some, I think some work is in the
00:38:42 --> 00:38:46 mix to determine how different the pheromones are compared in a
00:38:46 --> 00:38:47 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yeah.
00:38:48 --> 00:38:49 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: freeze killed brood.
00:38:49 --> 00:38:55 I would say it is closer to a freeze killed brood, but It has been shown
00:38:55 --> 00:39:00 that bees are a little bit more hygienic towards a pin killed brood
00:39:00 --> 00:39:05 test because it leaves that hole which facilitates detection and
00:39:06 --> 00:39:06 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yeah.
00:39:07 --> 00:39:08 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: removal of that.
00:39:08 --> 00:39:10 But also, you'll see some hemolymph.
00:39:10 --> 00:39:14 I've done hundreds of these pin killed tests in my master's, and
00:39:15 --> 00:39:17 yeah, you would always see this puddle of hemolymph coming out.
00:39:18 --> 00:39:21 And so, and that, that happens if you, you know, hit a cell
00:39:21 --> 00:39:22 that's a little bit young.
00:39:22 --> 00:39:22 So, you
00:39:23 --> 00:39:23 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yeah.
00:39:23 --> 00:39:27 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: white eyed brood so, and how that compares, you
00:39:27 --> 00:39:32 know, there, we know that pheromone profile of the freeze killed brood test,
00:39:32 --> 00:39:37 that there is one pheromone component of it that acts to Attract workers.
00:39:37 --> 00:39:41 It's a, it's a highly volatile pheromone that attracts workers and then more
00:39:41 --> 00:39:46 targeted pheromones that they can target the cell for hygiene then.
00:39:46 --> 00:39:50 So I would imagine that pin kill would be closer to that, but it's
00:39:50 --> 00:39:54 a test that is not as widely used because you can see some, some
00:39:54 --> 00:39:56 of that exaggerated hygiene that,
00:39:56 --> 00:39:57 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yes.
00:39:57 --> 00:39:59 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: because they're actually that
00:39:59 --> 00:40:00 hygienic or is it because.
00:40:01 --> 00:40:04 you know, there's a big, big hole in it and the Excel capping.
00:40:04 --> 00:40:10 So, sorry, no, it's just, it's good to just keep those in mind as you're testing.
00:40:10 --> 00:40:13 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: We did, a few years ago, we had a high
00:40:13 --> 00:40:17 school student at the school where I worked in FFA doing a program
00:40:17 --> 00:40:20 and they wanted to do some testing.
00:40:20 --> 00:40:25 So we came out and did some pen tests, or pen killed, brewed on
00:40:25 --> 00:40:27 a few hives so they could see it.
00:40:27 --> 00:40:31 And, and I'll have to admit, The results were better than I
00:40:31 --> 00:40:35 anticipated because I don't feel like I haven't purchased hygienic bees.
00:40:35 --> 00:40:38 I've just I've purchased a few packages.
00:40:38 --> 00:40:39 I've caught a few swarms.
00:40:40 --> 00:40:41 Not really worried about it too much.
00:40:42 --> 00:40:46 So that could, could be a result of that heightened response
00:40:46 --> 00:40:48 due to the opening in the cap.
00:40:49 --> 00:40:49 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah.
00:40:49 --> 00:40:53 And I think that too, and certainly there were, you know, and all the ones I did in
00:40:53 --> 00:40:59 my master's You know, when I, and I did all the hygiene tests for this paper that
00:40:59 --> 00:41:03 we were doing and kind of compared across them, but yes, sometimes they would really
00:41:03 --> 00:41:06 attack it and sometimes they wouldn't.
00:41:06 --> 00:41:11 So, even though, you know, there, there are some colonies still that won't
00:41:11 --> 00:41:15 respond to it, even though, you know, it should elicit a higher response.
00:41:15 --> 00:41:15 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh yeah.
00:41:16 --> 00:41:17 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: That makes sense.
00:41:17 --> 00:41:19 But yeah, that's, that's interesting that you tested with it too.
00:41:21 --> 00:41:23 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: So when you do these tests, are you seeing
00:41:23 --> 00:41:27 a wide range of responses to it?
00:41:27 --> 00:41:29 Oh, yeah,
00:41:29 --> 00:41:30 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: depends.
00:41:30 --> 00:41:31 Yes, I do.
00:41:31 --> 00:41:36 I see everything from, you know, the most hygienic to no score at all.
00:41:36 --> 00:41:40 It depends on the selection history.
00:41:40 --> 00:41:44 It depends on the time of year that you're testing that particular colony.
00:41:44 --> 00:41:48 And yeah, I think it can depend too on the test.
00:41:48 --> 00:41:50 So, know.
00:41:51 --> 00:41:57 hive that is selected for a freeze killed brood performance on the freeze
00:41:57 --> 00:42:01 killed brood test may score higher on a Harbo just because there may be
00:42:01 --> 00:42:08 some overlap, but may not be as a, as a breeder for a Harbo candidate,
00:42:08 --> 00:42:13 as a, as a breeder candidate for a Harbo test, if that makes sense.
00:42:13 --> 00:42:19 So we're, in general, selecting them to be better sniffers, but the mechanisms.
00:42:20 --> 00:42:22 for each behavior and each test are different.
00:42:22 --> 00:42:27 So even if you're selecting one colony for one test and they score well there,
00:42:27 --> 00:42:31 they may not necessarily respond that way.
00:42:31 --> 00:42:37 So in the example of UBO, we found that, you know, colonies that have
00:42:37 --> 00:42:40 been selected for freeze killed brood in general scored higher.
00:42:41 --> 00:42:47 that test, but it's essentially selecting for the, the, the top, even the top
00:42:47 --> 00:42:52 performers of freeze killed brood, just because it's a slightly, it's not as
00:42:52 --> 00:42:55 powerful as the freeze killed brood scent.
00:42:55 --> 00:43:00 It's a little bit more subtle, so we wouldn't expect everybody to score
00:43:00 --> 00:43:04 great on that test because, you know, we haven't selected these for that really.
00:43:04 --> 00:43:06 And it's, it's, it's a more subtle cue.
00:43:07 --> 00:43:11 So there are a lot of things that can, you know, kind of affect hygienic performance.
00:43:12 --> 00:43:13 One then being the,
00:43:16 --> 00:43:18 and food that's coming into the hive.
00:43:18 --> 00:43:22 So, they're, they more readily perform hygiene when there's
00:43:22 --> 00:43:23 a nectar flow going on.
00:43:24 --> 00:43:27 And that tends to be the time that people do their hygiene testing.
00:43:28 --> 00:43:29 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: that leads me.
00:43:29 --> 00:43:31 I'd made a note of the question you mentioned about the
00:43:31 --> 00:43:33 difference in time of year.
00:43:34 --> 00:43:39 Is that really just a factor of how much nectar is coming in?
00:43:39 --> 00:43:42 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah, yeah, for UBO and for freeze killed
00:43:43 --> 00:43:47 you may see a decrease in performance or performance on the test.
00:43:47 --> 00:43:49 If you test during the dearth
00:43:49 --> 00:43:52 it's the opposite for the Harpo test.
00:43:52 --> 00:43:53 That's you actually want to test.
00:43:54 --> 00:43:55 During the dearth which.
00:43:56 --> 00:43:59 You know, for here, it's not really tied to the dirt.
00:43:59 --> 00:44:03 It's really tied more to mite population at that point.
00:44:04 --> 00:44:04 the
00:44:05 --> 00:44:05 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, okay.
00:44:05 --> 00:44:08 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: a Harpo test would be You know, in August
00:44:08 --> 00:44:12 when mite population is at its highest and you know, gives you ample
00:44:12 --> 00:44:16 opportunity to look to see how they're dealing with the reproductive mites.
00:44:18 --> 00:44:21 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: When you think about selection criteria for
00:44:21 --> 00:44:26 your breeders, are you giving them multiple tests or have you settled
00:44:26 --> 00:44:28 on just one test to identify them?
00:44:30 --> 00:44:32 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah, that's, that's a great question too.
00:44:32 --> 00:44:37 I think that you should select, I think that any hygiene selection should be the
00:44:37 --> 00:44:41 last step in, in your selection method.
00:44:41 --> 00:44:45 So you want to select for, you know, some of these tests too, you
00:44:45 --> 00:44:48 can use to, okay, I like these.
00:44:48 --> 00:44:55 Colonies here say, like, out of maybe I've narrowed it down to five that, you
00:44:55 --> 00:45:00 know, look good, they built up good, good temperament propolis production, and that
00:45:00 --> 00:45:06 tends to vary based on producer what it is that they look for prior to production.
00:45:06 --> 00:45:11 But prior to hygiene selection, but, you know, I can see the benefit.
00:45:11 --> 00:45:17 It depends on how much time you have and, and I guess how serious you are,
00:45:19 --> 00:45:23 about your breeding stock and, and really what the goals of your operation are.
00:45:23 --> 00:45:28 So, if you're a queen breeder maybe you're doing some, you're actually selling
00:45:28 --> 00:45:33 instrumentally inseminated breeder queens, or, you know, F1s, and you
00:45:33 --> 00:45:38 want to, you want to that, you know, this queen is priced at this, what, at
00:45:38 --> 00:45:42 this price point because of all this selection, then you may want to do two
00:45:42 --> 00:45:47 hygiene tests, either You know, the freeze killed brood and I would do harbo and
00:45:47 --> 00:45:47 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yeah.
00:45:48 --> 00:45:50 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: for any breeder that I'm, that I'm selecting.
00:45:51 --> 00:45:57 so, but you could do two, you could even do a grooming test in there too, if
00:45:57 --> 00:46:01 you wanted to, but you know, if you're just looking for If you're, if you're
00:46:01 --> 00:46:08 mainly a, beekeeper that is focused on production, then I think sourcing the
00:46:08 --> 00:46:12 genetics, you know, if you want to make queens for yourself, I would pick one
00:46:12 --> 00:46:18 test, probably the Harbo test, because I think mites are, I think that's the
00:46:18 --> 00:46:22 biggest problem that we're dealing with, but you don't necessarily have to go
00:46:22 --> 00:46:27 overboard with it to reap the benefits of using mite, mite and disease resistant
00:46:27 --> 00:46:28 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yeah.
00:46:30 --> 00:46:36 For a backyard beekeeper or someone with just a few hives, they get in a
00:46:36 --> 00:46:43 queen that has hygienic behavior and they raise a few queens out of her.
00:46:43 --> 00:46:49 How many generations before they need to go buy another hygienic queen?
00:46:49 --> 00:46:50 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah,
00:46:50 --> 00:46:53 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: something they should, well, rather than me
00:46:53 --> 00:46:55 rambling on, I'll let you answer it.
00:46:56 --> 00:46:57 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: No, no, I know exactly.
00:46:57 --> 00:47:01 Yeah, where you're going with that and I'm not sure that, that I've
00:47:01 --> 00:47:04 seen a very good answer for that.
00:47:04 --> 00:47:09 I, I wouldn't recommend buying years in a row from the same source
00:47:10 --> 00:47:12 only purchasing from that source.
00:47:12 --> 00:47:17 So, you know, if you buy from that person again, and, you know, maybe
00:47:17 --> 00:47:20 bring in some other sources as well, but I think it's that repeated, you
00:47:20 --> 00:47:25 know, and just in my visual experience, I'm sure that there's a study that's
00:47:25 --> 00:47:28 been done on this you know, for in our.
00:47:29 --> 00:47:30 yards.
00:47:30 --> 00:47:31 I has started.
00:47:31 --> 00:47:35 I, there were times where I saw the white eye drone
00:47:36 --> 00:47:36 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Yes.
00:47:36 --> 00:47:40 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: and that's of, and I could be wrong
00:47:40 --> 00:47:44 about this, but I think it's a indication of some inbreeding there.
00:47:44 --> 00:47:45 And that's when
00:47:46 --> 00:47:50 as like, maybe we shouldn't keep buying from, you know, this one
00:47:50 --> 00:47:53 package source, which we did, you know, we bought from the same.
00:47:54 --> 00:47:57 Supply store and he brought him in from Georgia.
00:47:58 --> 00:48:03 So, you know, for a, for a small scale beekeeper, just a couple hives
00:48:03 --> 00:48:09 in the backyard, you know, maybe if they are purchasing every year and.
00:48:09 --> 00:48:13 If so, maybe there's some other issues to, to address there.
00:48:13 --> 00:48:15 Even, you know, we all have, you know,
00:48:15 --> 00:48:16 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Right.
00:48:16 --> 00:48:19 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: but you certainly hear people sometimes,
00:48:19 --> 00:48:21 you know, who are yearly customers.
00:48:21 --> 00:48:22 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yeah.
00:48:23 --> 00:48:25 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: addressing maybe some root issues there with
00:48:25 --> 00:48:28 that, but, you know, maybe every two to three years you know, could
00:48:30 --> 00:48:34 add in some other sources and, just to get around the inbreeding issue.
00:48:35 --> 00:48:35 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yeah.
00:48:37 --> 00:48:42 Before we move to the famous four questions, is there anything else you'd
00:48:42 --> 00:48:43 like to add about hygienic behavior?
00:48:44 --> 00:48:47 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: No, I thought that was a, that was exciting.
00:48:47 --> 00:48:51 love when I get the chance to talk about it and frame it in a way that,
00:48:52 --> 00:48:54 hopefully people can use because it's.
00:48:55 --> 00:48:57 is a pretty dense subject,
00:48:57 --> 00:48:58 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yeah.
00:48:58 --> 00:49:00 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: you could break it down into mite,
00:49:01 --> 00:49:03 mite hygiene, hygienic behavior.
00:49:03 --> 00:49:08 And so if we can, you know, a lot of these bigger concepts, if, and the
00:49:08 --> 00:49:12 point of it is of people like me, I guess, learning about them is to
00:49:13 --> 00:49:17 eventually, translate it in ways that, you know, we can practically use.
00:49:17 --> 00:49:21 So, I hope that of it was helpful, at least.
00:49:22 --> 00:49:23 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Yes, it was.
00:49:23 --> 00:49:24 Very good.
00:49:24 --> 00:49:29 It is time for our famous four questions, and Phoebe, I'm not sure I even mentioned
00:49:29 --> 00:49:31 this before the episode, so Okay.
00:49:31 --> 00:49:32 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: That's okay.
00:49:33 --> 00:49:35 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: I, it was on my list, but I didn't
00:49:35 --> 00:49:36 get to it, but that's okay.
00:49:36 --> 00:49:38 It's same four questions we ask of all of our guests.
00:49:39 --> 00:49:43 Our first question, what is your favorite beekeeping related book or resource?
00:49:45 --> 00:49:46 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Hmm.
00:49:48 --> 00:49:49 Let's see.
00:49:50 --> 00:49:52 I think the beekeeper's bible is good.
00:49:52 --> 00:49:53 I
00:49:53 --> 00:49:53 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yes.
00:49:54 --> 00:49:56 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: I love how that really mixed in a lot of
00:49:56 --> 00:50:01 historical, cultural there's a lot of good recipes in there and, and some
00:50:01 --> 00:50:03 practical beekeeping stuff there too.
00:50:03 --> 00:50:05 So I, I love the aesthetics of it too.
00:50:05 --> 00:50:08 I think it's a good, well rounded, something that, you know, makes
00:50:09 --> 00:50:12 interesting and approachable enough that you're ready to grab the next book then.
00:50:13 --> 00:50:14 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, very good.
00:50:14 --> 00:50:14 Yeah.
00:50:15 --> 00:50:19 Our second question, what's your favorite tool to use on your beekeeping?
00:50:19 --> 00:50:24 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Mmm, as in like my hive tool, or like a hive tool.
00:50:25 --> 00:50:27 Type or just what I
00:50:27 --> 00:50:32 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: It's just, when I think about tool, I'm, I don't mean, it
00:50:32 --> 00:50:37 can be your physical hive tool, but just in general, and maybe that's a rewording
00:50:37 --> 00:50:42 I need to use on the, on the Grazing Grass podcast, I say favorite tool for your
00:50:42 --> 00:50:45 farm, and we get all kinds of answers.
00:50:46 --> 00:50:50 I notice With the beekeeping, we want to go to the hive tool.
00:50:50 --> 00:50:52 So I may have to work on the wording on that one.
00:50:53 --> 00:50:53 It's
00:50:53 --> 00:50:54 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: my head did
00:50:54 --> 00:50:59 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Yeah, yeah, so maybe your favorite What what could we do?
00:50:59 --> 00:51:01 Favorite practice or
00:51:01 --> 00:51:02 yeah, okay.
00:51:03 --> 00:51:06 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: So my, mine would be this.
00:51:06 --> 00:51:08 super obnoxious.
00:51:08 --> 00:51:11 This big blue feed barrel that I put on the back of my truck.
00:51:12 --> 00:51:15 And it's, it's completely changed feeding for me, but
00:51:15 --> 00:51:17 yeah, it's a big, it has a pump
00:51:17 --> 00:51:18 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, yes
00:51:19 --> 00:51:20 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: big hose and but.
00:51:22 --> 00:51:27 mixing up, gone are the days of mixing up syrup in five gallon buckets and
00:51:28 --> 00:51:31 and, you know, heaving them up to pour it in.
00:51:31 --> 00:51:36 So I would say as, as silly, and people recognize me now around town
00:51:36 --> 00:51:38 with my blue barrel on the back.
00:51:39 --> 00:51:43 But yeah, that's, that's been my biggest tool that I can't live without now.
00:51:43 --> 00:51:44 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh Very good.
00:51:44 --> 00:51:47 Do you mix it up in the blue barrel?
00:51:48 --> 00:51:52 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: So I go to my friend Ashby and he gets, because he's He
00:51:52 --> 00:51:56 probably runs 400 to 500 hives, so he goes and gets syrup from another commercial
00:51:57 --> 00:51:58 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh, so, so you're getting the
00:51:58 --> 00:52:00 syrup, so you're, oh, very good.
00:52:00 --> 00:52:01 Yeah.
00:52:01 --> 00:52:02 Yeah.
00:52:02 --> 00:52:02 Much easier.
00:52:02 --> 00:52:03 That's really good.
00:52:04 --> 00:52:04 Yeah.
00:52:06 --> 00:52:10 Our third question, what would you tell someone just getting started?
00:52:11 --> 00:52:12 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Mmm,
00:52:14 --> 00:52:20 I would say, there's so many things I would say just being,
00:52:21 --> 00:52:27 Open and, open to the process of learning and failing and staying
00:52:27 --> 00:52:28 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: yeah.
00:52:28 --> 00:52:33 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: to the education and staying dedicated to
00:52:33 --> 00:52:38 the, to the education and being humble for the lesson, if that makes sense
00:52:39 --> 00:52:43 you know, because they're, I still, I talked about my swarm issue last year.
00:52:45 --> 00:52:47 You're never going to stop making mistakes.
00:52:47 --> 00:52:49 I, I know, you know, this too, you know,
00:52:50 --> 00:52:52 experienced beekeeper yourself, but.
00:52:52 --> 00:52:57 Know, the bees are always teaching me things and I, my duty to them
00:52:57 --> 00:53:01 is to continue to look for better ways to do things and, you know,
00:53:01 --> 00:53:05 not be hard on myself when I make a mistake, but own up to it and, you
00:53:05 --> 00:53:08 know, be better for, for next time.
00:53:08 --> 00:53:13 So, you know, I think beekeeping is a, is a process of, of something to learn
00:53:13 --> 00:53:16 and kind of that lifelong learning thing.
00:53:18 --> 00:53:19 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Yeah.
00:53:19 --> 00:53:19 Just,
00:53:20 --> 00:53:23 just whenever you start to think you know what you're doing,
00:53:23 --> 00:53:24 the bees will correct you.
00:53:26 --> 00:53:27 And I love that.
00:53:27 --> 00:53:31 Being open to the process and to the failures because there will be
00:53:31 --> 00:53:33 failures in whatever you're doing.
00:53:33 --> 00:53:35 There's going to be hurdles There's going to be speed bumps.
00:53:36 --> 00:53:40 There's going to be times you're setting back and reevaluating what you're doing.
00:53:40 --> 00:53:41 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah.
00:53:41 --> 00:53:41 Yeah.
00:53:41 --> 00:53:46 I feel like beekeeping has enabled me to take and evaluate better
00:53:46 --> 00:53:48 risks than in my other life.
00:53:48 --> 00:53:49 You know, my whole life,
00:53:49 --> 00:53:50 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Oh Yes
00:53:51 --> 00:53:51 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: starting a business.
00:53:51 --> 00:53:54 And I failed as a beekeeper before.
00:53:54 --> 00:53:55 I could fail at this, too.
00:53:55 --> 00:53:57 But, you know, so
00:53:57 --> 00:53:59 in a lot of other ways, too.
00:53:59 --> 00:54:01 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: very good and lastly where can
00:54:01 --> 00:54:03 others find out more about you
00:54:04 --> 00:54:06 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Oh don't want to do that.
00:54:06 --> 00:54:11 I guess, well, Instagram's kind of maybe Facebook, that's, that's a good one.
00:54:12 --> 00:54:15 Yeah, my Instagram is, but that's a lot of metal, so, you know,
00:54:15 --> 00:54:18 that's a whole other personality.
00:54:20 --> 00:54:23 So if you like slamming brutal death metal, you can find me there, I guess.
00:54:23 --> 00:54:24 cal_3_01-30-2025_125118: Very good.
00:54:24 --> 00:54:27 Well, Phoebe, thank you for coming on and sharing today.
00:54:28 --> 00:54:29 phoebe_3_01-30-2025_135118: Yeah, thank you for having me.
00:54:29 --> 00:54:30 This has been great.
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