In this episode, we welcome Eugene Makovec, the editor of the American Bee Journal and a passionate advocate for the beekeeping community. Eugene's remarkable 30-year journey from a Wisconsin dairy farm to managing Sweet Harvest Honey in Missouri is a testament to his dedication and love for beekeeping. Throughout the episode, Eugene shares insights into his life, his initial lack of interest in bees, and how conversations with his father ignited a lifelong passion.
Topics discussed
- Eugene's Beekeeping Journey
- Public Speaking and Community Engagement
- Regulatory Challenges
- Legislative Advocacy
- Beekeeping Tips and Resources
This episode is a treasure trove of inspiration and practical knowledge for both novice and experienced beekeepers. Eugene Makovic's story is not only about the intricacies of beekeeping but also a powerful reminder of the impact one person can have on a community. Whether you're interested in the art of beekeeping, legislative advocacy, or simply love a good success story, Eugene's insights and experiences offer valuable lessons on perseverance, passion, and the importance of community support in overcoming challenges.
Links Mentioned in the Episode
American Bee Journal
Apiary Chronicles Links
Website
Check out the Grazing Grass Podcast
Chapters
NOTE This file was generated by Descript
00:00:00 --> 00:00:04 Speaker: On today's episode we talk with Eugene Makovec, the
00:00:04 --> 00:00:06 editor of the American Bee Journal.
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 You may have seen his name there.
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12 He's a beekeeper with 30 years of experience, and he usually
00:00:12 --> 00:00:14 has about a dozen hives.
00:00:14 --> 00:00:18 He's past president of the Three Rivers Beekeepers, and
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 active in other local clubs.
00:00:22 --> 00:00:27 He's a two time Missouri beekeeper the year winner as well.
00:00:28 --> 00:00:34 In 2015, Eugene spearheaded an effort to deregulate the sell of honey in Missouri.
00:00:35 --> 00:00:40 Allowing beekeepers to sell their products through retail outlets without
00:00:40 --> 00:00:42 benefit of a commercial kitchen.
00:00:42 --> 00:00:46 On today's episode, we are going to talk to Eugene about his journey with bees.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:53 and then through his honey deregulation journey in Missouri and what you can do.
00:00:54 --> 00:00:57 Really great episode and we'll get started with the Fast Five.
00:00:58 --> 00:01:00 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: First question, what's your name?
00:01:01 --> 00:01:02 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Eugene Makovec.
00:01:03 --> 00:01:05 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: And what's your apiary's name?
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: I go by Sweet Harvest Honey.
00:01:08 --> 00:01:10 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: And where are you located?
00:01:10 --> 00:01:13 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: I'm in Foley, Missouri is the closest town.
00:01:13 --> 00:01:15 It's about an hour Northwest of St.
00:01:15 --> 00:01:15 Louis.
00:01:16 --> 00:01:17 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, okay.
00:01:18 --> 00:01:20 And what year did you start with bees?
00:01:20 --> 00:01:23 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: I started in 1996, so I'm
00:01:24 --> 00:01:25 getting into my 30th year.
00:01:26 --> 00:01:28 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Yeah, you've been doing it a
00:01:28 --> 00:01:28 little
00:01:29 --> 00:01:29 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yep.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: And how many colonies do you routinely manage?
00:01:33 --> 00:01:34 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: bounce around.
00:01:34 --> 00:01:37 I say, we, it's mostly me, but my wife helps out with them too.
00:01:37 --> 00:01:39 Bounce around a dozen or so range.
00:01:39 --> 00:01:41 I got 11 right now.
00:01:41 --> 00:01:46 I was out over the weekend and we got some some days up 60s and even, I think
00:01:46 --> 00:01:51 Close to 70 on Sunday, got out and just kind of made sure everybody was everybody.
00:01:51 --> 00:01:55 So all 11 of my colonies I sent in the winter are still alive.
00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 I just checked to make sure that was the case.
00:01:58 --> 00:01:59 So I'm doing well.
00:02:00 --> 00:02:01 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Well, very good.
00:02:01 --> 00:02:03 Yeah, we've had really nice weather this week.
00:02:03 --> 00:02:08 Now, a couple of days in here has been drizzly and not so nice.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:09 Today is not so nice yet.
00:02:09 --> 00:02:13 But we've had a couple days, it's, I don't know if we hit 70 or just
00:02:13 --> 00:02:14 got so close you could see it.
00:02:15 --> 00:02:17 But I think we have a couple more that's supposed to be really nice.
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21 And then of course, they're talking about cold weather next week.
00:02:21 --> 00:02:22 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yeah, we're supposed to be
00:02:22 --> 00:02:24 getting some snowflakes today.
00:02:24 --> 00:02:26 So it's still just rain here at this point.
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 We've got a few cooler days now.
00:02:30 --> 00:02:30 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Yeah.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:36 Cal: Welcome to Apiary Chronicles, where we dive deep into the world of beekeeping
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 and the people who make it all happen.
00:02:38 --> 00:02:42 I'm Cal Hardage your host and fellow bee enthusiast.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:45 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Well, why did you get started with bees, Eugene?
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: My dad had bees when I was growing up and
00:02:50 --> 00:02:52 I never had any interest back then.
00:02:52 --> 00:02:57 And it was something we, I was on a dairy farm up in Wisconsin and we had, dad had
00:02:57 --> 00:03:03 10 kids and I think it was, it was all about working sunup to sundown to try
00:03:03 --> 00:03:07 and put food in our mouths and shirts on our backs and the bees, I think, were
00:03:07 --> 00:03:13 just something he kind of did on the side and didn't really push it on any of us.
00:03:13 --> 00:03:16 And I guess he thought, you know, it's bad enough making us milk cows
00:03:16 --> 00:03:18 twice a day and bale hay and all that.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 Why make us deal with stinging insects as well?
00:03:22 --> 00:03:25 I don't know, but you know if you ask him about it, I remember asking
00:03:25 --> 00:03:28 him now and then about this or that and he'd be happy to share.
00:03:28 --> 00:03:32 I remember him telling me about the queens and the workers and
00:03:32 --> 00:03:36 and of course we ate honey all the time and I knew why that was.
00:03:36 --> 00:03:40 Better than sugar and things like that, but other than that, it was just something
00:03:40 --> 00:03:44 I thought was kind of cool, but didn't really have interest until later on.
00:03:44 --> 00:03:50 Dad had some, some health problems in the, in the late 80s, early 90s, he
00:03:50 --> 00:03:53 ended up having a kidney transplant.
00:03:53 --> 00:03:53 and
00:03:54 --> 00:03:54 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh,
00:03:54 --> 00:03:56 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: of course, then, you know, he wasn't,
00:03:56 --> 00:03:57 that wasn't about the mid 80s.
00:03:57 --> 00:04:00 And wasn't as able to work with the bees.
00:04:00 --> 00:04:03 You know, he bounced around three or four hives or something.
00:04:04 --> 00:04:09 And when Varroa came along, then that kind of just finished it off for him.
00:04:09 --> 00:04:13 And when he got out of bees, you know, I used to, I was living down
00:04:13 --> 00:04:17 here in Missouri, whenever I'd go up there, I'd, Take some jars and bring
00:04:17 --> 00:04:18 some, bring some money back with me.
00:04:18 --> 00:04:22 And it wasn't the same buying it from the grocery store.
00:04:22 --> 00:04:26 So I called my dad one day and started talking about stuff.
00:04:26 --> 00:04:31 And, and he was kind of, kind of happy that one of his 10 kids had
00:04:31 --> 00:04:33 something, some interest in it.
00:04:33 --> 00:04:37 And And so, and when I found out my grandfather had actually been a beekeeper
00:04:37 --> 00:04:41 too, I did, I had never known that, that kind of sealed the deal for me.
00:04:41 --> 00:04:47 So, I drove up in my with a friend with my, my Ford Aerostar van and
00:04:47 --> 00:04:52 picked up some equipment, including an old an old galvanized 40s era Daydant
00:04:52 --> 00:04:55 hand crank four frame extractor.
00:04:55 --> 00:04:55 I
00:04:55 --> 00:04:59 used that for a few years until it, until it broke and I ended up having
00:04:59 --> 00:05:05 to go to, go call Dana and upgrade a stainless steel, but, but that's,
00:05:05 --> 00:05:06 that's kind of how I got started.
00:05:09 --> 00:05:11 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: You know, my dad had bees when I was little
00:05:12 --> 00:05:15 which sparked my interest later on when I got in high school.
00:05:15 --> 00:05:18 I got my own hives and dad only did it for a few years.
00:05:19 --> 00:05:25 But we had a stainless steel Hand crank, extractor, two or four frame, I forget.
00:05:26 --> 00:05:30 He loaned it to someone between, we moved after he had bees and then he got
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 out of bees, but we had the equipment.
00:05:33 --> 00:05:35 And we moved out here where we dairied.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:40 And, somewhere in that, dad loaned it to someone.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:42 And he can't remember who he loaned it to.
00:05:42 --> 00:05:43 So,
00:05:43 --> 00:05:45 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: You think that person would have
00:05:45 --> 00:05:46 remembered who he borrowed it from.
00:05:47 --> 00:05:50 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: You, you thought so because then when I got in high school
00:05:50 --> 00:05:52 and got B's, I was like, where is that?
00:05:52 --> 00:05:53 And dad's like, well, I loaned it to someone.
00:05:54 --> 00:05:55 I just don't know who.
00:05:57 --> 00:05:58 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yeah, you know, the neat thing about,
00:05:59 --> 00:06:04 about me and my dad was, I was number eight out of those 10 kids, so I never
00:06:04 --> 00:06:06 really had a relationship with my dad.
00:06:06 --> 00:06:07 Growing up.
00:06:07 --> 00:06:11 And once I got into the bees and every time I talked to my dad, of
00:06:11 --> 00:06:14 course, he would bring up the bees and, and we kind of, kind of got to
00:06:14 --> 00:06:16 know each other a little bit better.
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 You know, we still didn't talk about feelings and things like that.
00:06:19 --> 00:06:22 We just don't do that in my family, but but I got to know him
00:06:22 --> 00:06:24 those last few years of his life.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:25 And that was, that was
00:06:25 --> 00:06:26 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, that's wonderful.
00:06:27 --> 00:06:27 Yeah.
00:06:29 --> 00:06:33 So when you decide to get into bees, did you do it through packages,
00:06:34 --> 00:06:36 through nukes, or complete hives?
00:06:36 --> 00:06:39 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: started out with a package, had
00:06:39 --> 00:06:43 that, you know, post office delivery, went and picked him up and, and, And
00:06:43 --> 00:06:45 killed that first, that first queen.
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 Well, not the actual colonies made it, but I killed that first queen.
00:06:48 --> 00:06:51 And, and of course I didn't know what I was doing.
00:06:51 --> 00:06:55 I, I did take a workshop Jefferson County beekeeper south of St.
00:06:55 --> 00:06:55 Louis.
00:06:55 --> 00:06:57 I took a workshop there and.
00:06:58 --> 00:07:02 And I jumped in and I joined the Eastern Missouri beekeepers because
00:07:02 --> 00:07:06 they met a few blocks from my house.
00:07:06 --> 00:07:07 I lived in Kirkwood in St.
00:07:07 --> 00:07:12 Louis County and, and so I got those and, and I managed to.
00:07:12 --> 00:07:17 You know, I left some, some open, open spots where I, when I had installed
00:07:17 --> 00:07:21 them and didn't get back there to put the frames in, of course they made a
00:07:21 --> 00:07:25 mess of things and I had some stuff drop out on the ground, killed my queen and
00:07:25 --> 00:07:30 that kind of short circuited any chance of a successful year for me, but did
00:07:30 --> 00:07:32 manage to get them through the winter.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:36 And then the next year, I think I bought a couple of nukes the following
00:07:36 --> 00:07:38 year and I expanded a little bit.
00:07:38 --> 00:07:38 Years, but.
00:07:39 --> 00:07:42 The third, third year probably where I made enough money
00:07:42 --> 00:07:43 to start selling a little.
00:07:44 --> 00:07:45 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yeah.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:50 Did you, I assume you probably started with some Italians.
00:07:50 --> 00:07:50 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yeah.
00:07:50 --> 00:07:52 They were Italians at the time.
00:07:52 --> 00:07:52 Yeah.
00:07:52 --> 00:07:53 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Yeah.
00:07:55 --> 00:07:59 Did you go with the traditional 10 frame Lungstroth?
00:07:59 --> 00:07:59 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yeah.
00:07:59 --> 00:08:04 Langstroth is what my dad had used and I had some old boxes of his and,
00:08:04 --> 00:08:06 and that's, that's what I went with.
00:08:06 --> 00:08:10 And I found out that they weren't entirely compatible with everything.
00:08:10 --> 00:08:12 He built a lot of his own stuff.
00:08:12 --> 00:08:14 He was even building his own frames at one point.
00:08:15 --> 00:08:19 That's just a difficult proposition, you know, so I had various things
00:08:19 --> 00:08:21 that was kind of mixed and matched.
00:08:21 --> 00:08:25 And, you know, I think I still have a couple of those old boxes
00:08:25 --> 00:08:27 around that I'll use as to put.
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 Put around feeders and those sorts of things, but none of them are
00:08:31 --> 00:08:32 actually in service otherwise.
00:08:32 --> 00:08:34 The main,
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: When you got those first bees, was there anything
00:08:37 --> 00:08:39 that surprised you about them?
00:08:40 --> 00:08:44 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: the biggest thing was just that, first
00:08:44 --> 00:08:49 of all, that, that rush, you know, you, you feel when you, you dump those bees
00:08:49 --> 00:08:53 out of that package and you got all these bees just swirling around in the area.
00:08:53 --> 00:08:58 And of course, you know, as a new beekeeper, you're all suited up and you
00:08:58 --> 00:09:01 know, I got the full suit and everything like that, but it's still just the idea
00:09:01 --> 00:09:03 of all these things and insects around me.
00:09:03 --> 00:09:09 And, and then the next thing was just how docile they were for the most part.
00:09:09 --> 00:09:12 You know, I go in and work them and I even, you know, I had
00:09:12 --> 00:09:13 all the gloves and everything.
00:09:14 --> 00:09:18 On, but, but still the fact that I could go through and, and move all
00:09:18 --> 00:09:23 their furniture around and what, you know, do all these things and, and they
00:09:23 --> 00:09:24 just kind of went about their business.
00:09:24 --> 00:09:28 Like, I wasn't even there that, that really surprised me because
00:09:28 --> 00:09:30 I just never expected that.
00:09:31 --> 00:09:34 And of course, you know, you, like most beekeepers, it didn't take
00:09:34 --> 00:09:39 long before this, this was kind of gave me my life new meaning.
00:09:39 --> 00:09:40 Yes.
00:09:40 --> 00:09:41 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yes.
00:09:42 --> 00:09:43 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: It tends to take over your life.
00:09:45 --> 00:09:46 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: That it does.
00:09:46 --> 00:09:48 It, it, it does, it'll, yeah.
00:09:48 --> 00:09:52 I think you said earlier, it can eat up as much time as you allow it to.
00:09:53 --> 00:09:53 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yeah.
00:09:55 --> 00:09:59 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: With those first hives and expanding, did you expand
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 your apiary by always bringing in bees?
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04 Or did you start doing some splits or raising your own
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: I did the first couple of times before I
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 kind of started to figure some things out.
00:10:10 --> 00:10:14 And part of the difficulty was I had, when I first started, I had
00:10:14 --> 00:10:16 one hive of bees an hour from home.
00:10:16 --> 00:10:20 I had a guy that I worked with that I worked a half an hour from
00:10:20 --> 00:10:23 home and he lived a half an hour on the other side of that, and.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:25 He said, you can put some bees in my yard.
00:10:25 --> 00:10:31 And my, my wife, ex wife she was not thrilled about the idea.
00:10:32 --> 00:10:32 And.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:36 So that, that, you know, I, there was no chance of me
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 putting bees at home, but the,
00:10:39 --> 00:10:39 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: oh yeah.
00:10:40 --> 00:10:42 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: the second year in I met somebody,
00:10:42 --> 00:10:48 I gave a talk at a garden club and a woman came up to me and said, my
00:10:48 --> 00:10:51 husband used to have bees back in the fifties and we wouldn't mind.
00:10:52 --> 00:10:53 She was an older, older lady.
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 We wouldn't, wouldn't mind having some bees on our property.
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 So I went over there and they had a Great piece of ground.
00:11:00 --> 00:11:03 And so I, I kept some bees there and then brought the other
00:11:03 --> 00:11:04 ones home from farther away.
00:11:04 --> 00:11:09 So by the third year I had them, I had them all within a couple of miles of,
00:11:09 --> 00:11:13 of home and that made it make things easier, but, but yeah, I, I bought a
00:11:13 --> 00:11:15 couple of nukes, I think that second year.
00:11:15 --> 00:11:18 And then I bought a couple more nukes a couple of years later when I, when they
00:11:18 --> 00:11:23 all died and, you know, it, it took me, I think it was about my third or fourth
00:11:23 --> 00:11:27 year four colonies and all four of them bit the dust over a winter, which is
00:11:27 --> 00:11:27 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh
00:11:28 --> 00:11:31 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Devastating and, and I picked myself back
00:11:31 --> 00:11:36 up and, and got back on that horse and, and things, you know, things got better
00:11:36 --> 00:11:40 and I, you know, you still have, you have your good years and your bad years
00:11:40 --> 00:11:43 and when you, when you have those good years, you brag to everybody about it
00:11:43 --> 00:11:48 and those years when they had occasional year, I went a couple of years ago where
00:11:48 --> 00:11:55 I lost half of my D's and, and I kind of kept a low profile that spring, you know.
00:11:55 --> 00:11:59 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: I, I I think it was winter of 21 that I had terrible
00:11:59 --> 00:12:05 losses and that I, I was thinking, well, maybe I want a few more bees
00:12:05 --> 00:12:07 and I had terrible losses that year.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 And, and since then I've just kept a couple of hives out there, but,
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 you know, starting to get the itch again to increase those numbers.
00:12:13 --> 00:12:15 But yeah, it does take the wind out of your
00:12:15 --> 00:12:16 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yeah.
00:12:16 --> 00:12:20 Generally speaking, I bounce around 10 or 15 percent losses.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:22 I do do pretty well.
00:12:22 --> 00:12:26 For the most part I, and I, that bad year, I mean, we had, we had
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29 a couple of years where our, our nectar flows have gone really late.
00:12:30 --> 00:12:30 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh
00:12:31 --> 00:12:33 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Typically over the years, by about 4th of
00:12:33 --> 00:12:36 July, things are about done around here.
00:12:36 --> 00:12:41 And we've, we went into about mid August a couple of years ago and just
00:12:41 --> 00:12:46 got in, got my, checks and treatments on too late, I think, and they'd
00:12:46 --> 00:12:47 had got too much of a foothold.
00:12:47 --> 00:12:51 And so I lost some bees, you know, early winter.
00:12:51 --> 00:12:57 And so, yeah, that was hard, but Things are better this year.
00:12:57 --> 00:12:58 So we'll see.
00:13:01 --> 00:13:03 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Yeah, that's always good news with your, your flow.
00:13:03 --> 00:13:08 You're talking about, do you have much of a fall flow?
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: We usually do now.
00:13:10 --> 00:13:11 I never did.
00:13:11 --> 00:13:16 I'm living out in rural area now where in Lincoln County, where I live now,
00:13:17 --> 00:13:22 we usually get a good fall goldenrod aster flow the last, we've got three
00:13:22 --> 00:13:26 years in a row now where it's been too dry in the summer and they just haven't
00:13:26 --> 00:13:31 brought anything in from it, but that was something I never got in Kirkwood.
00:13:31 --> 00:13:32 Kirkwood, they pretty much.
00:13:33 --> 00:13:37 For the most part, they would, they would fill themselves back up in the fall.
00:13:39 --> 00:13:40 Here, they do that.
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42 And then some, most,
00:13:42 --> 00:13:42 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: oh yeah.
00:13:43 --> 00:13:43 That's some extra.
00:13:43 --> 00:13:45 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: not, not for the last couple of years.
00:13:47 --> 00:13:51 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: The last few years, I say few because it's at least
00:13:51 --> 00:13:53 three, it may be as many as five.
00:13:53 --> 00:13:57 Our falls have been just, we've just been so dry.
00:13:57 --> 00:13:58 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Where are you again?
00:13:59 --> 00:14:00 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Northeast Oklahoma,
00:14:01 --> 00:14:04 so I'm probably six and a half, seven hours from
00:14:04 --> 00:14:05 you to the southwest.
00:14:07 --> 00:14:11 Yeah, we've we've been really dry and and not had much happen in
00:14:11 --> 00:14:14 the fall for grazing or bees, so.
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19 Now, in your journey, somewhere in there, and you mentioned earlier,
00:14:19 --> 00:14:23 you gave a talk at a garden club early in your beekeeping career.
00:14:24 --> 00:14:27 Did you start doing education or speaking early in?
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 Did you get involved with your local club?
00:14:29 --> 00:14:33 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: You know, it was the, the, the first,
00:14:33 --> 00:14:40 first opportunity I had for that, if you can call it that, was my, my, I
00:14:40 --> 00:14:45 have four kids and my, my third, three, three, Three girls and then a boy.
00:14:45 --> 00:14:49 My youngest daughter was in first grade and said something
00:14:49 --> 00:14:54 to her teacher at school And I got a call asking to come talk
00:14:55 --> 00:14:55 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh,
00:14:55 --> 00:14:58 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: graders and scared to death out of him
00:14:58 --> 00:15:00 You know, it scared me half to death.
00:15:00 --> 00:15:05 I just wasn't I'm not that guy you know, I was never never able to
00:15:05 --> 00:15:10 stand up in front of people and talk about anything and and I just, I
00:15:10 --> 00:15:12 packed up some, I was a photographer.
00:15:12 --> 00:15:13 I had a dark room.
00:15:13 --> 00:15:17 I went down and printed some 11 by 14 prints of this and that, and took some
00:15:17 --> 00:15:23 hive equipment and went up there and, and gave a little talk and had the best
00:15:23 --> 00:15:28 time of my life and, and the kids were all following me outside and volunteer to
00:15:28 --> 00:15:32 help me carry my things and continuing to bounce questions off me and everything.
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 And so I started doing some of those things and.
00:15:36 --> 00:15:41 And then it wasn't long before somebody asked me to talk at a garden club,
00:15:41 --> 00:15:46 and I started doing those here and there too, and, and some Kiwanis
00:15:46 --> 00:15:49 clubs, and just barely, basically,
00:15:49 --> 00:15:50 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: yeah.
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: whatever kind of organization looking
00:15:52 --> 00:15:53 for a lunchtime speaker for cheap.
00:15:53 --> 00:15:59 And, and you know, some of my schools, I never charged anything for those.
00:15:59 --> 00:15:59 Some of the others I did.
00:16:00 --> 00:16:03 Charging 50 bucks or something and sell some honey.
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 And, but they were a lot of fun.
00:16:05 --> 00:16:08 And then at one point I started, I graduated to starting to talk
00:16:09 --> 00:16:12 to beekeepers too, and that's, that's a whole other level there.
00:16:12 --> 00:16:16 You know, that's, it's, that's scarier actually than talking to real people.
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 Beekeepers, they'll call you out if you get something wrong, you know, or, or
00:16:20 --> 00:16:21 at least, you know, they're thinking it.
00:16:24 --> 00:16:24 You have to,
00:16:24 --> 00:16:28 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Well, that start talking to six and seven year olds
00:16:28 --> 00:16:33 is a great start because I've gone to schools and talked about beekeeping.
00:16:33 --> 00:16:35 Yeah, they just love it and they just eat it up.
00:16:36 --> 00:16:37 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: And the teachers too, they love having
00:16:37 --> 00:16:41 people, anybody come in and talk about something different so the kids
00:16:41 --> 00:16:43 aren't just sleeping at their desks.
00:16:43 --> 00:16:45 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh yeah, give them a little bit of a break and
00:16:45 --> 00:16:46 stuff yeah.
00:16:47 --> 00:16:50 I haven't, I haven't been hit up this year, but I'm suspecting, my wife
00:16:50 --> 00:16:54 teaches first grade, so I suspect I may be doing this later in the spring.
00:16:56 --> 00:16:57 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yeah, it's fun.
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Let's talk about your management of your hives just a
00:17:02 --> 00:17:04 little bit and your philosophy in there.
00:17:04 --> 00:17:08 Are you a person that likes to get in the hives every few days?
00:17:08 --> 00:17:10 Do you, or are you hands off?
00:17:10 --> 00:17:14 Or where on that continuum would you describe your management?
00:17:14 --> 00:17:15 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: I'm kind of in the middle.
00:17:16 --> 00:17:20 When in the springtime, I'm in there trying to get in there
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22 every 10 days at the most,
00:17:22 --> 00:17:27 week to 10 days, just because things things change so much in the spring.
00:17:27 --> 00:17:31 And it depends on on the hive to on the colony, what they're what they're doing.
00:17:31 --> 00:17:33 But for the most part, I'm in there.
00:17:33 --> 00:17:40 About that often during that kind of April through early June till I kind of
00:17:40 --> 00:17:41 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yeah.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: kind of get getting pushing out of that swarm
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 season and they're in honey production.
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48 I make sure I get over over that hump.
00:17:48 --> 00:17:51 The summertime, I pretty much leave them alone.
00:17:51 --> 00:17:55 Get them in check if I have to, but make sure they're queen
00:17:55 --> 00:17:57 right and that sort of thing.
00:17:57 --> 00:18:01 And then in the fall, just kind of make sure they're ready into winter.
00:18:01 --> 00:18:08 And then I leave them alone over winter, of course, and, know, like now I went,
00:18:08 --> 00:18:14 I went over the, over the weekend just to check, check who's alive and, and
00:18:14 --> 00:18:19 fed a couple of light ones, put a couple of candy boards on and I'm waiting
00:18:19 --> 00:18:21 now for a A stretch of warm weather.
00:18:21 --> 00:18:25 If we get four or five days where they're out in a butterfly in an area where
00:18:25 --> 00:18:29 they're pretty well broken cluster, then I'll go in there and, and check
00:18:29 --> 00:18:34 every, check through everybody, make sure I got laying queens, equalize food
00:18:34 --> 00:18:39 supplies, get a little bit further in probably before I equalize populations.
00:18:40 --> 00:18:42 I do that generally by.
00:18:43 --> 00:18:48 on the season, you know, depending on how that spring is looking early, late or
00:18:48 --> 00:18:54 whatever, I'll get in there at some point and kind of equalize populations to, to,
00:18:54 --> 00:18:59 to make sure nobody's getting out of hand because it's, it's too early to make,
00:18:59 --> 00:19:02 Too early to get queens to make splits.
00:19:02 --> 00:19:05 And, you know, just kind of rob the rich to help the poor.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:11 You know, I tell people I'm kind of a small L libertarian in real life, but
00:19:11 --> 00:19:13 I'm very much the socialist in the VR.
00:19:14 --> 00:19:15 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: yeah, yeah.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19 Are you running double brood chambers?
00:19:19 --> 00:19:22 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: double deeps, yep, yep, 10 frame double
00:19:22 --> 00:19:24 deeps, which, you know, they're heavy.
00:19:25 --> 00:19:29 And there are some times when I'm out there wishing I'd gone mediums
00:19:29 --> 00:19:31 or, or 8 frame or something.
00:19:31 --> 00:19:35 You know, my dad, my dad ran double, ran deeps for everything.
00:19:36 --> 00:19:37 And he was not a big guy.
00:19:37 --> 00:19:42 He was about five, six, you know, I don't know if he ever reached 150 pounds.
00:19:42 --> 00:19:46 You know, he was not, not a big guy, but he was strong as an ox.
00:19:46 --> 00:19:50 He would, he would carry those full deeps and, and I, I have.
00:19:51 --> 00:19:55 situations where I'm out there and I'll throw it, I'll throw a third deep on a
00:19:55 --> 00:19:59 hive for swarm control, give them that space, you know, I wind up with those.
00:19:59 --> 00:20:01 And of course they come back later and they fill the thing with,
00:20:01 --> 00:20:05 with honey and that'll buckle your knees carrying that thing
00:20:05 --> 00:20:05 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: oh
00:20:05 --> 00:20:06 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: across the yard.
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08 It's, it's, it's a lot of weight.
00:20:08 --> 00:20:10 I can't imagine why you do that.
00:20:10 --> 00:20:11 Of course, my dad would also.
00:20:12 --> 00:20:17 He would, when I'd go up to Wisconsin to get honey, that's not why I went up there.
00:20:17 --> 00:20:18 Well, in part it was, I guess.
00:20:19 --> 00:20:22 I'd go up to see the family and I'd go to get some honey.
00:20:22 --> 00:20:26 He had, you know, he was a retired dairy farmer.
00:20:27 --> 00:20:27 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: yes,
00:20:27 --> 00:20:29 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: those milk cans, those 10 gallon
00:20:30 --> 00:20:32 milk cans, he would fill those things with honey.
00:20:32 --> 00:20:37 He put them up at the top of the stairs for some ungodly reason.
00:20:37 --> 00:20:42 I, I can't, I can't imagine lugging those things up there full of honey.
00:20:43 --> 00:20:46 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: oh
00:20:46 --> 00:20:47 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: cream scoop and I'd scoop that
00:20:47 --> 00:20:51 crystallized honey out and put it in, put it in jars.
00:20:51 --> 00:20:54 But yeah, he, he was a, he was a strong, strong guy.
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 Wonder about, wonder about his intelligence sometimes he does that stuff.
00:20:58 --> 00:20:59 No, not really.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 He was also very, very intelligent.
00:21:02 --> 00:21:02 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: yes, yeah.
00:21:03 --> 00:21:06 Do you run shallows or mediums for your honey supers?
00:21:07 --> 00:21:07 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Mediums.
00:21:08 --> 00:21:08 Yeah.
00:21:08 --> 00:21:10 I've always run the, run the mediums.
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 Just, there's not that much difference between the mediums and the shallows.
00:21:13 --> 00:21:17 You might as well go with the mediums is the way I see it.
00:21:18 --> 00:21:19 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh yeah.
00:21:20 --> 00:21:24 With your honey and harvesting it, and then marketing, are
00:21:24 --> 00:21:26 you selling all liquid honey?
00:21:27 --> 00:21:27 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yeah.
00:21:27 --> 00:21:29 I don't, I don't do any comb honey.
00:21:29 --> 00:21:30 I have done.
00:21:30 --> 00:21:36 I, I, Toyed with the Ross rounds off and on, but I was never good at it.
00:21:36 --> 00:21:40 And, and, you know, that was a management, that was just a, I guess a time
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 management thing among other things.
00:21:42 --> 00:21:45 That was just kind of like, I, I, when I'd run out of supers, like, Oh
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 yeah, I got these routes, Ross rounds.
00:21:47 --> 00:21:48 I'll throw one of those on.
00:21:48 --> 00:21:51 And of course that was like toward the end of the honey flow.
00:21:51 --> 00:21:54 So the nectar flow, so they wouldn't, wouldn't work them properly.
00:21:54 --> 00:21:59 You really got to crowd them and make them go in those things to get them to work.
00:22:00 --> 00:22:01 I know people like the comb honey.
00:22:01 --> 00:22:01 That's just.
00:22:02 --> 00:22:06 My laziness, I guess, I don't, I don't have the time to deal with them.
00:22:08 --> 00:22:10 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: And on the subject of comb, are
00:22:10 --> 00:22:12 you running plastic foundation?
00:22:12 --> 00:22:16 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: I like my, for, for deeps, I like
00:22:16 --> 00:22:18 my wax, my wired wax foundation
00:22:18 --> 00:22:18 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh,
00:22:18 --> 00:22:19 yes.
00:22:19 --> 00:22:21 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: an anachronism that a lot of
00:22:21 --> 00:22:24 people think, why, who, who even deals with this stuff anymore?
00:22:24 --> 00:22:29 But the bees like it better, and I like it better, and I know the, the,
00:22:29 --> 00:22:33 the nice thing about the wax, about the plastic is it, it lasts forever.
00:22:33 --> 00:22:34 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yeah.
00:22:34 --> 00:22:35 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: you know, you can scrape that
00:22:35 --> 00:22:39 stuff off, but it's just, and you gotta You got to put new wax on it.
00:22:39 --> 00:22:41 And, you know, I don't know.
00:22:41 --> 00:22:46 I, and as far as buying the new stuff, if I know you can get it where it's double
00:22:46 --> 00:22:51 coated and they'll build on it better, but still it seems like it's not as good.
00:22:51 --> 00:22:55 And you know how bees will come, they'll steal wax from here and there
00:22:55 --> 00:22:58 where they need it and then later on they just won't build on that spot.
00:22:59 --> 00:23:03 And to me, buying plastic foundation and then having to coat it with wax, that's
00:23:03 --> 00:23:05 kind of like buying foundation twice.
00:23:06 --> 00:23:06 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh,
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: For a little guy like me, I can, I can, go out
00:23:09 --> 00:23:14 in the shed and wire some frames and, you know, put, put my take my phone out there
00:23:14 --> 00:23:17 and put a podcast or something on and listen to something while I'm doing it.
00:23:17 --> 00:23:20 And it's a little bit of a, you know, quiet time for me.
00:23:20 --> 00:23:22 And I don't mind, mind doing that.
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26 Now for honey supers, I got a lot of those that are, are plastic.
00:23:26 --> 00:23:28 They, they hold up better to the.
00:23:28 --> 00:23:31 The extractor, I do have some, some wax ones.
00:23:31 --> 00:23:34 You just got to be careful with them the first year or so.
00:23:34 --> 00:23:38 So they kind of get, get tougher, you know, and then they'll,
00:23:38 --> 00:23:40 they'll spin out better without being damaged.
00:23:43 --> 00:23:45 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: I think that's very important.
00:23:46 --> 00:23:52 I got, so when I got back into bees, I decided to do a couple top bar hives,
00:23:53 --> 00:23:57 long top bars, and I Went out there in August, and I should have known better,
00:23:57 --> 00:24:02 but I was checking the hive August July.
00:24:02 --> 00:24:06 It was hot because I had, I checked a couple frames and lost the comb
00:24:06 --> 00:24:10 off of them, because I had just put a starter strip on it, and they had
00:24:10 --> 00:24:16 built down, and it was hot, and I, I totally messed up those, those frames,
00:24:16 --> 00:24:18 if you want to call them frames.
00:24:19 --> 00:24:21 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yeah, I, I had one, one
00:24:21 --> 00:24:22 experiment with a top bar.
00:24:22 --> 00:24:24 My, my wife thought it would be neat to try.
00:24:24 --> 00:24:28 And, and so, I, I built one out there and I'm not a carpenter.
00:24:28 --> 00:24:30 I'm not good at that kind of thing, but, but I.
00:24:30 --> 00:24:34 You know, I spent a lot more time than I should have, than it should
00:24:34 --> 00:24:38 have taken me, but I, I built a, built a top bar hive and, you know, I put
00:24:38 --> 00:24:42 the, the bars in there and I put the little starters in there and, and my
00:24:42 --> 00:24:44 problem was they, they didn't attach.
00:24:45 --> 00:24:49 They didn't attach those combs on the sides, but they attached them
00:24:49 --> 00:24:51 to each other, like on the ends,
00:24:51 --> 00:24:51 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh,
00:24:51 --> 00:24:52 yeah.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:53 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: but not the other.
00:24:53 --> 00:24:57 They were all attached and it was so much trouble getting them out
00:24:57 --> 00:25:01 without tearing, I just kind of left them to their own devices and they
00:25:01 --> 00:25:04 made it through the first winter.
00:25:04 --> 00:25:07 They never, I think I had about 30 frames in there.
00:25:07 --> 00:25:09 They never got beyond about 10 or 12.
00:25:09 --> 00:25:11 They made it through the first winter.
00:25:11 --> 00:25:13 The second spring.
00:25:13 --> 00:25:19 They swarm four times in the same, into the same peach tree about 20 feet away.
00:25:19 --> 00:25:23 Nobody stayed home to make honey and they starved the next second winter.
00:25:23 --> 00:25:26 So we turned it into an herb, a little herb garden
00:25:26 --> 00:25:27 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yes.
00:25:27 --> 00:25:28 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: a couple of years until
00:25:28 --> 00:25:29 the bottom rotted out.
00:25:31 --> 00:25:32 it was firewood.
00:25:32 --> 00:25:37 So, you know, reuse, re re reuse and recycle and all that stuff.
00:25:39 --> 00:25:42 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: My top bar hives I glued some boards
00:25:42 --> 00:25:46 together and eventually those broke after I quit using them.
00:25:46 --> 00:25:49 And I used them for feed trials for goats for a while.
00:25:50 --> 00:25:54 Let's change gears just a little bit Eugene and go beyond the buzz and talk
00:25:54 --> 00:25:58 about honey regulations or deregulations.
00:25:58 --> 00:26:04 I know a few years ago in Missouri you worked hard to get honey deregulated.
00:26:04 --> 00:26:07 Can you tell us a little bit about your journey there?
00:26:07 --> 00:26:08 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yeah.
00:26:08 --> 00:26:08 I.
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 I mentioned that I lived in St.
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 Louis County in Kirkwood.
00:26:13 --> 00:26:16 It's a pretty nice suburb outside of St.
00:26:16 --> 00:26:16 Louis.
00:26:16 --> 00:26:22 I was keeping bees and selling honey there for about 15 years.
00:26:22 --> 00:26:24 Sold through a couple of businesses.
00:26:24 --> 00:26:26 local retailers.
00:26:26 --> 00:26:32 And then after, after my divorce, I, I went looking for a place where
00:26:32 --> 00:26:35 I could get an acre or more ground.
00:26:35 --> 00:26:37 And I had to move well outside of St.
00:26:37 --> 00:26:40 Louis County to, to find something affordable.
00:26:40 --> 00:26:41 And I ended up out in Lincoln County.
00:26:41 --> 00:26:44 I'm about an hour northwest of St.
00:26:44 --> 00:26:51 Louis and in a rural area, closest town, Foley, is, is Got a population of 89 now.
00:26:51 --> 00:26:56 It's in a flood zone, so it's not a very prosperous community, but
00:26:56 --> 00:26:57 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh yeah.
00:26:57 --> 00:26:59 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: but I'm out basically in farm
00:26:59 --> 00:27:03 country surrounded by it's, I'm in a little development that was cut
00:27:03 --> 00:27:06 out of farmland and we're surrounded by corn and soybeans basically.
00:27:06 --> 00:27:09 And the bees do pretty well out here.
00:27:09 --> 00:27:14 And, and Started selling honey in a local meat market out here.
00:27:14 --> 00:27:20 My wife, my wife that I met a couple of years after found me, found this
00:27:20 --> 00:27:25 location out here and, and we were, we had honey in there for about a
00:27:25 --> 00:27:32 year and I got a call one day from a Lincoln County inspector saying I just
00:27:32 --> 00:27:33 I'm up here at Brown's meat market.
00:27:33 --> 00:27:35 I just pulled your honey off the shelves.
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38 Cause I don't have record of you having an inspected kitchen.
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 Do you by chance have an inspected kitchen?
00:27:41 --> 00:27:43 And I said, what's an inspected kitchen?
00:27:43 --> 00:27:44 Which pretty well answered your question.
00:27:45 --> 00:27:46 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Pretty well.
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: And, And, I said, what's that all about?
00:27:48 --> 00:27:53 And she said, well, you, you're required, if you sell honey directly
00:27:53 --> 00:27:55 to the consumer, you're fine.
00:27:55 --> 00:27:59 But if you sell through a third party, you're required to have A
00:27:59 --> 00:28:03 commercial kitchen that's inspected by the local health department.
00:28:04 --> 00:28:07 And I said, what's the difference?
00:28:07 --> 00:28:08 It's the same honey.
00:28:08 --> 00:28:11 And she said, well, you know, that's just the law.
00:28:11 --> 00:28:15 And I said, well, and I, you know, and, and the whole thing surprised me.
00:28:15 --> 00:28:17 Number one, I'd never heard of this law.
00:28:17 --> 00:28:17 Okay.
00:28:18 --> 00:28:22 And number two, Lincoln County was one of those areas where I thought
00:28:22 --> 00:28:24 you want to get away from regulations.
00:28:24 --> 00:28:25 You know, when I was
00:28:25 --> 00:28:25 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh,
00:28:26 --> 00:28:27 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Louis County, that's, you know, this
00:28:27 --> 00:28:29 is one of those areas where you go.
00:28:29 --> 00:28:34 If you, if your, your old fridge or washing machine craps out on you,
00:28:34 --> 00:28:37 you have drag it out in the yard and use it for parts for a few years.
00:28:37 --> 00:28:38 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh yeah.
00:28:38 --> 00:28:40 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: tell people, one of the great things
00:28:40 --> 00:28:43 about living where I do is I can pretty much do what I want on my own property.
00:28:44 --> 00:28:47 The downside is soaking my neighbors, but that's one
00:28:47 --> 00:28:47 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh,
00:28:47 --> 00:28:48 you are, right,
00:28:48 --> 00:28:49 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: those, trade offs, but, but
00:28:49 --> 00:28:52 so, but I asked this, this woman, her name was Stacy.
00:28:52 --> 00:28:57 I said, I didn't know Lincoln County had rules like this.
00:28:57 --> 00:28:58 And she said, Oh no, this isn't the County.
00:28:59 --> 00:29:01 This is the state health department.
00:29:02 --> 00:29:04 Coming down to us at the county level and saying you need to start
00:29:04 --> 00:29:07 enforcing our, our law on this.
00:29:07 --> 00:29:09 So, so that was that.
00:29:09 --> 00:29:12 And I, I said, well, can you tell me what the law is so I can look it up?
00:29:12 --> 00:29:14 And, and she said, ah, you know what?
00:29:14 --> 00:29:17 I'm not really sure, but I'll put you in touch with the state
00:29:17 --> 00:29:19 health inspector works out of St.
00:29:19 --> 00:29:21 Louis and her name was Virginia.
00:29:21 --> 00:29:28 And, and so Virginia called me back and, and explained this law better to me.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:30 And, you know, she, she explained that part of it.
00:29:30 --> 00:29:30 And also.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:34 And, you know, and I asked her, what's, what's the difference in this honey?
00:29:34 --> 00:29:40 And she said, well, if you sell direct, that, that end user can, can look
00:29:40 --> 00:29:43 you in the eye, she can judge you by your appearance, which I thought, you
00:29:43 --> 00:29:48 know, that's, you know, kind of weird, but, but she said that person can
00:29:48 --> 00:29:50 ask you questions about your product.
00:29:50 --> 00:29:56 And I said, well, I do get questions asked to me, both my direct
00:29:56 --> 00:29:58 users and through the stores.
00:29:59 --> 00:30:01 And they're never anything about whether that honey is.
00:30:02 --> 00:30:03 Safe to eat.
00:30:03 --> 00:30:07 It's more things like, why is this honey different color than what I had last fall?
00:30:07 --> 00:30:11 Or why does it taste so much better than what I buy in the grocery store and
00:30:11 --> 00:30:14 in my favorite, do you have this in a bigger size?
00:30:14 --> 00:30:18 Can I, can I buy the gallon, a gallon or something from you that, you know?
00:30:18 --> 00:30:23 So it's never anything that I would, you know, that, that they don't
00:30:23 --> 00:30:24 trust the honey for any reason.
00:30:25 --> 00:30:30 And another thing that, that another requirement was that even if you're
00:30:30 --> 00:30:33 selling direct to the consumer, you have to have a statement on that label
00:30:33 --> 00:30:37 that says this product has not been inspected by the Missouri department
00:30:37 --> 00:30:39 of health and senior services.
00:30:39 --> 00:30:42 Now that takes a pretty big chunk of real estate on your
00:30:42 --> 00:30:42 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh,
00:30:42 --> 00:30:43 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: especially on the smaller
00:30:43 --> 00:30:46 sizes, and it's just.
00:30:46 --> 00:30:52 Superfluous, you know, honey is a, is a, an inherently safe product.
00:30:52 --> 00:30:56 There's no reason to, to imply that it is not that way.
00:30:56 --> 00:31:01 And then the other, the other thing was even if you are just selling direct
00:31:01 --> 00:31:06 to consumer, if you're selling a lot of honey, say at farmer's markets and
00:31:06 --> 00:31:12 craft shows like that, and you reach a threshold of 30, 000, which I was in no
00:31:12 --> 00:31:15 danger of doing, but some people that work, you know, the farmer's market
00:31:15 --> 00:31:17 all year, I can see that happening.
00:31:18 --> 00:31:18 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yeah.
00:31:19 --> 00:31:20 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: that threshold, then you need an
00:31:20 --> 00:31:24 inspected kitchen regardless of, of where you're, you know, even if you're
00:31:24 --> 00:31:30 not selling through third party, which again, I asked that question, what's
00:31:30 --> 00:31:33 the difference between the 29, 031?
00:31:33 --> 00:31:36 It's the same, you know, but you know, well, that's just the law.
00:31:36 --> 00:31:41 So now Virginia did offer, she was very nice about it.
00:31:41 --> 00:31:44 Not, not very understanding of my position, but she was nice.
00:31:44 --> 00:31:45 And she said.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:52 I'd be happy to come to your local beekeeping club and explain this law.
00:31:52 --> 00:31:56 And, and I said, well, I just so happens I'm president of my local beekeeping
00:31:56 --> 00:32:00 club, Three Rivers Beekeepers, and I'll put you in touch with programming
00:32:00 --> 00:32:01 and we'll, we'll get you out here.
00:32:01 --> 00:32:05 And, and then So, so we went ahead and scheduled her for, I
00:32:05 --> 00:32:09 think it was our, this was, this was in August, I think of 2014.
00:32:09 --> 00:32:11 We scheduled her for November.
00:32:12 --> 00:32:16 And the, that was one, one of two things I had going for me at the time.
00:32:16 --> 00:32:21 The other was that I was, I was doing the newsletter for the Missouri State
00:32:21 --> 00:32:27 Beekeepers Association, which put me on the board of that organization
00:32:27 --> 00:32:31 and gave me a, a bully pulpit there where I could, you know, you know,
00:32:32 --> 00:32:33 rail about this to the membership,
00:32:34 --> 00:32:34 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Right?
00:32:34 --> 00:32:35 Yes.
00:32:35 --> 00:32:39 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: but, but I, I, I went to the local club and I,
00:32:39 --> 00:32:44 you know, told my story and then, and I also put something on the MSBA Facebook
00:32:45 --> 00:32:51 group and, and our program, our state programming director put Virginia on the
00:32:51 --> 00:32:55 docket for the fall, the fall meeting, the fall state meeting in October.
00:32:56 --> 00:32:59 And so she came to the state meeting.
00:33:00 --> 00:33:02 She was not real well received.
00:33:02 --> 00:33:05 She, she had a PowerPoint presentation, got about.
00:33:06 --> 00:33:13 Three slides in and, and it just evolved into a one long Q and A and, and a lot
00:33:13 --> 00:33:16 of people asking the same questions that I was, what's the difference
00:33:16 --> 00:33:18 between this honey and that honey?
00:33:18 --> 00:33:22 and and we spent a lot of time trying to nail down just what an
00:33:22 --> 00:33:24 inspected kitchen consisted of.
00:33:24 --> 00:33:25 And she really couldn't.
00:33:26 --> 00:33:30 answer the question definitively because it turns out it varies
00:33:30 --> 00:33:31 by your local authorities.
00:33:31 --> 00:33:35 And so we kind of played a running game of 20 questions where we
00:33:36 --> 00:33:38 sort of narrowed some things down.
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41 It's, it's got either three or four stainless steel sinks.
00:33:41 --> 00:33:46 You have to have a floor drain, washable walls covered lights.
00:33:47 --> 00:33:49 You have to have an attached bathroom.
00:33:50 --> 00:33:53 Now, now this can be, it has to be separate from your residence.
00:33:53 --> 00:33:55 You can be attached to your residence.
00:33:55 --> 00:33:55 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh yeah.
00:33:55 --> 00:33:57 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: But it has to be separate and you can't
00:33:57 --> 00:34:01 run, you can't run into the main part of the house and use the bathroom.
00:34:01 --> 00:34:03 You got to have a bathroom attached to this.
00:34:03 --> 00:34:10 And you have to have separate drainage septic or sewer system as well
00:34:10 --> 00:34:11 from your house.
00:34:11 --> 00:34:17 If you, if you hire somebody to help you.
00:34:18 --> 00:34:19 Extract honey.
00:34:19 --> 00:34:23 Then you've got a, another set of regulations.
00:34:23 --> 00:34:27 You've got to comply with ADA, you know, disability stuff and have a
00:34:27 --> 00:34:31 wheelchair accessible area and, and, you know, those sorts of things.
00:34:31 --> 00:34:34 So, so we're talking some real money, even if, you know, even if
00:34:34 --> 00:34:35 you're not hiring somebody, they're,
00:34:36 --> 00:34:39 Tens of thousands of dollars to build this thing.
00:34:39 --> 00:34:45 So, so, you know, this, this was not not well received.
00:34:45 --> 00:34:50 And, and I went home and I wrote a couple of stories on this.
00:34:50 --> 00:34:54 One was just kind of a news story for the newsletter about, you
00:34:54 --> 00:34:58 know, the, the conference and her visit, her talk and everything.
00:34:59 --> 00:35:01 And then I wrote a separate editorial, just kind of.
00:35:01 --> 00:35:03 tearing into the health department about this.
00:35:04 --> 00:35:08 But, but then I had a Oh, we had that.
00:35:08 --> 00:35:13 We had that her schedule at the the, the, local meeting and she didn't make it.
00:35:13 --> 00:35:15 She didn't show up her and turned out later.
00:35:15 --> 00:35:19 Her, her daughter was, was home from school for a couple of days and she forgot
00:35:19 --> 00:35:20 about us and cut her daughter was sick.
00:35:20 --> 00:35:24 And, but we had a retired inspector that I found out about
00:35:25 --> 00:35:26 the meeting and he came to see.
00:35:27 --> 00:35:28 What she was going to talk about.
00:35:29 --> 00:35:34 And when she didn't show, he got up and said, Hey, I can, I can speak to this.
00:35:34 --> 00:35:37 And, and that run actually better because.
00:35:37 --> 00:35:40 Since he was retired, he could be a little bit more candid with us.
00:35:40 --> 00:35:42 And, and we kind of educated him.
00:35:42 --> 00:35:46 And, and, and he said, I can tell you one thing, you're not going to get
00:35:46 --> 00:35:47 anywhere with the health department.
00:35:47 --> 00:35:51 If you want to change something, you got to go through the legislature to do it.
00:35:51 --> 00:35:55 So we kind of, we kind of formed a little committee there at the, at the
00:35:55 --> 00:36:00 local level and sat down and tried to talk about what we wanted to do
00:36:00 --> 00:36:02 and figure out how to do something.
00:36:02 --> 00:36:05 Somebody had the, had the bright idea that.
00:36:05 --> 00:36:10 Hey, we should send a letter to the state health department and say, Hey, you're
00:36:10 --> 00:36:12 just starting to enforce this thing.
00:36:13 --> 00:36:17 Tell us how many people have been getting sick from eating honey prior to this time?
00:36:18 --> 00:36:18 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh
00:36:18 --> 00:36:19 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: You know, we kind of agreed they
00:36:19 --> 00:36:23 probably wouldn't bother to respond to us, but it was worth the effort, right?
00:36:23 --> 00:36:26 You know, so we went ahead and did that.
00:36:26 --> 00:36:30 And then I got an email from Joe Graham, who was editor of
00:36:30 --> 00:36:32 American Bee Journal at the time.
00:36:33 --> 00:36:38 They, he, they advertised, they had advertised in the, and the newsletter,
00:36:40 --> 00:36:43 and so did so did bee culture, and So they got a copy of that newsletter
00:36:43 --> 00:36:45 every two months when it came out.
00:36:45 --> 00:36:50 So Joe emailed me and he said, Hey, I read your newsletter and I'd like to
00:36:50 --> 00:36:55 get permission from you to, to publish, to, to reprint this pair of articles.
00:36:55 --> 00:36:56 And I said, Hey, that'd be, that'd be great.
00:36:57 --> 00:37:00 And he said, and also I've attached some information on what
00:37:00 --> 00:37:05 Illinois did to fix their law when they ran into these problems.
00:37:05 --> 00:37:08 And so that was, that was really helpful.
00:37:08 --> 00:37:09 Illinois.
00:37:09 --> 00:37:14 It's a completely different world from Missouri, where beekeeping is concerned.
00:37:14 --> 00:37:15 Missouri is like the wild west.
00:37:16 --> 00:37:20 I keep bees, you mind your own business and everybody's happy.
00:37:20 --> 00:37:24 In Illinois, if you want to be a beekeeper, you've got
00:37:24 --> 00:37:25 to register with the state.
00:37:25 --> 00:37:32 You've got to register your hives, submit to inspection by by their,
00:37:32 --> 00:37:34 their, the state apiary inspectors.
00:37:34 --> 00:37:37 When, when they want to inspect them once a year or something like that.
00:37:37 --> 00:37:41 I'm not sure how that, how that program works, but, but you've got to, you know,
00:37:41 --> 00:37:43 you've got to be tied into all that.
00:37:43 --> 00:37:46 And, and I understand the reason for it.
00:37:46 --> 00:37:51 I mean, years ago, these programs were largely a response to foul brood,
00:37:51 --> 00:37:55 American foul brood, when that was raging through, through beekeeping.
00:37:56 --> 00:37:58 A lot of them that have gone away, but some states.
00:37:59 --> 00:38:00 Still, still do that.
00:38:00 --> 00:38:06 Now, the upside for, for Illinois is the state is also
00:38:06 --> 00:38:08 very supportive of beekeepers.
00:38:08 --> 00:38:09 Not only do they have
00:38:09 --> 00:38:15 a top flight bee lab up there in Champaign Urbana at the U of I, when you
00:38:16 --> 00:38:20 Join a local Illinois beekeeping club.
00:38:20 --> 00:38:24 They're actually a member of the state beekeeping organization,
00:38:24 --> 00:38:26 Illinois Illinois state beekeepers.
00:38:27 --> 00:38:32 You go to an ISBA meeting, the ag department is on the docket that
00:38:32 --> 00:38:35 somebody, a representative from the ag department gets up and
00:38:35 --> 00:38:36 talks about the inspection program.
00:38:37 --> 00:38:42 And these are how many hives we opened and, and these are the diseases we're
00:38:42 --> 00:38:44 tracking in these areas and whatnot.
00:38:44 --> 00:38:44 So.
00:38:44 --> 00:38:46 You know, they can be very helpful.
00:38:46 --> 00:38:53 So when, when their health department started cracking down on these dangerous
00:38:53 --> 00:38:58 beekeepers, the ag department took up the cause for them and they helped them in
00:38:58 --> 00:39:01 the legislature and got the law changed.
00:39:01 --> 00:39:02 Basically.
00:39:03 --> 00:39:08 Pull honey completely away from the health department, classify it as a raw
00:39:08 --> 00:39:13 agricultural commodity, and say, you guys can sell it whatever you want to.
00:39:13 --> 00:39:18 The one stipulation is where we had that 30, 000 limit in Missouri,
00:39:18 --> 00:39:21 they had a 500 gallon limit.
00:39:22 --> 00:39:26 There were, if you reached 500 gallons, you needed that inspected kitchen.
00:39:26 --> 00:39:29 Otherwise you didn't have to worry about it.
00:39:29 --> 00:39:32 So, so that gave, that gave me some hope because Illinois is not one of
00:39:32 --> 00:39:36 those states where you would expect to be able to reduce regulations.
00:39:36 --> 00:39:39 They're more of a, they're a bigger, bigger government state
00:39:39 --> 00:39:41 than, than, than Missouri is.
00:39:42 --> 00:39:49 So I then I went and I contacted my old, My old neighbor from, from Kirkwood in St.
00:39:49 --> 00:39:56 Louis County, he'd been, in the, in the state legislature, he'd been, well,
00:39:56 --> 00:39:59 he was a city councilman when I, when I first met him, I remember putting
00:39:59 --> 00:40:04 up yard signs for him, but he did his stint in the, in the state house and
00:40:04 --> 00:40:09 then the state Senate, got term limited out about the time I, then when I left
00:40:09 --> 00:40:14 town, but I called him and told him my story and said, you know, how would I
00:40:14 --> 00:40:16 go about getting something done here?
00:40:17 --> 00:40:22 And his first recommendation was, well, get yourself a lobbyist.
00:40:22 --> 00:40:23 And I said, well, we're not going to get a lobbyist.
00:40:24 --> 00:40:28 You don't have to have the, the money or, or, or anything, you know?
00:40:28 --> 00:40:30 And he said, well, here's what you need to do.
00:40:30 --> 00:40:31 What, here's what I would suggest.
00:40:31 --> 00:40:36 Find someone on one of the ag committees, either the house or the
00:40:36 --> 00:40:41 Senate, explain your, issue and see if they can introduce a bill for you.
00:40:42 --> 00:40:46 And by the way, he said, I'm, I'm friends with the Senate Ag Committee.
00:40:46 --> 00:40:52 That's still there from when, when I was there and I'll put you in, I'll,
00:40:52 --> 00:40:56 or he said, give him a call, give him a shout, tell him, you know, me.
00:40:56 --> 00:40:59 And tell your, tell your problem to him.
00:40:59 --> 00:41:04 And I tried calling this guy, emailed, never got a response.
00:41:04 --> 00:41:07 I found out pretty quickly, if you're not in somebody's district,
00:41:08 --> 00:41:09 they could not care less if you're.
00:41:10 --> 00:41:12 You know, who, who you are, what your problem is.
00:41:13 --> 00:41:15 I didn't get anywhere with that.
00:41:15 --> 00:41:22 I tried contacting my own legislator, but this was this was November of 14,
00:41:23 --> 00:41:29 an election year, and my state rep had just got elected to the state Senate.
00:41:29 --> 00:41:30 So she was between jobs.
00:41:30 --> 00:41:33 She wasn't answering at either, at either office.
00:41:34 --> 00:41:37 So I was kind of, kind of stuck there.
00:41:38 --> 00:41:41 Missouri Missouri beekeepers board meeting.
00:41:41 --> 00:41:43 We had a quarterly meeting that was scheduled for mid January.
00:41:43 --> 00:41:47 So I thought, okay, I'm gonna go there and we'll talk about this and see what
00:41:47 --> 00:41:52 we can do as I, and I brought it up and, you know, said, we're, they're just
00:41:52 --> 00:41:56 starting to crack down on, I've heard from a couple of other counties too.
00:41:56 --> 00:41:59 And some other people in Lincoln County, you know, I think we should.
00:41:59 --> 00:42:06 We should try and do something looking to changing the law here kind of
00:42:06 --> 00:42:09 nip this thing in the bud and, and I actually got a little pushback.
00:42:09 --> 00:42:16 I had one guy said, well, what if we try doing this and we fail the health
00:42:16 --> 00:42:21 department might just push back on us even harder for, for daring to challenge them.
00:42:21 --> 00:42:25 And, and then there was another guy who said he was, he was a retired lobbyist.
00:42:25 --> 00:42:28 He worked in, I think the insurance industry.
00:42:28 --> 00:42:31 And he said, well, it's already too late this year to do anything anyway.
00:42:31 --> 00:42:35 And I said, well, what do you mean that the session just started?
00:42:35 --> 00:42:40 I mean, this, this was mid January legislative session.
00:42:40 --> 00:42:43 Missouri runs first week of January through mid May.
00:42:44 --> 00:42:45 May 15th that year.
00:42:45 --> 00:42:48 And I said, the session just started.
00:42:48 --> 00:42:50 He said, yeah, but there's so many bills pile up.
00:42:50 --> 00:42:56 If you didn't have something pre filed in December, good luck getting it out of the
00:42:56 --> 00:42:59 pile and moving it forward at this point.
00:42:59 --> 00:43:03 And so the, the board president said, okay, we'll just table this for now.
00:43:03 --> 00:43:05 We'll take it up again in the fall.
00:43:05 --> 00:43:10 So, so I went home, understandably discouraged and feeling all alone.
00:43:10 --> 00:43:10 And.
00:43:11 --> 00:43:15 And then I got a I got an email a couple days later from a, a new
00:43:15 --> 00:43:19 beekeeper in Lincoln County said, Hey, I read, I read the state newsletter
00:43:19 --> 00:43:22 and I happen to be friends with a guy.
00:43:22 --> 00:43:27 Named Zach, who is Senator Riddle's, the, our new state senator,
00:43:27 --> 00:43:29 Senator Riddle's legislative aide.
00:43:29 --> 00:43:32 You want me to put you in touch, ? I said Absolutely.
00:43:32 --> 00:43:36 So I talked to Zach and explained the situation and he talked to Jeannie
00:43:36 --> 00:43:41 Riddle and scheduled a meeting for, I think it was early February
00:43:41 --> 00:43:43 and first, first week of February.
00:43:44 --> 00:43:49 And so, we sat down then and, and talked to this and the
00:43:49 --> 00:43:51 morning of my meeting with.
00:43:52 --> 00:43:58 With Jeannie and Zach, the mail comes and I have a response from the health
00:43:58 --> 00:44:03 department and it basically says, we looked and, and we have no record
00:44:03 --> 00:44:06 of anybody in the state of Missouri ever getting sick from eating honey.
00:44:07 --> 00:44:11 So when I showed that to Jeannie Riddle, she got a big smile on her
00:44:11 --> 00:44:13 face that this is going to be helpful.
00:44:14 --> 00:44:15 And so, so I talked to her.
00:44:16 --> 00:44:19 About this whole, you know, I had explained everything to Zach beforehand,
00:44:19 --> 00:44:21 but I, you know, explained the issue and she said, yeah, I think this is
00:44:22 --> 00:44:26 something we can help you with and, and I asked her about the, the idea that it
00:44:26 --> 00:44:30 was too late and she looked at Zach and she said, that bill that we that law
00:44:30 --> 00:44:34 we passed for the concrete workers last year, wasn't that introduced in March?
00:44:34 --> 00:44:38 And, and he said, yeah, and that was a lot more complicated than this one is.
00:44:38 --> 00:44:39 I think we can get something like this passed.
00:44:40 --> 00:44:47 So, so, so then we basically from there just kind of sat down and, and negotiated
00:44:47 --> 00:44:48 over the, over the wording of the bill.
00:44:49 --> 00:44:53 Honey at the, at the time, it was, it was covered in what was
00:44:53 --> 00:44:55 basically the jams and jellies law.
00:44:55 --> 00:45:00 It applied to jams and jellies and, and, And honey, it was basically written as an
00:45:00 --> 00:45:04 exemption, kind of like how the cottage food laws are written as an exemption
00:45:04 --> 00:45:08 from the kitchen, as long as you only sell to the consumer and you do everything
00:45:08 --> 00:45:11 in your own kitchen and you have the warning label and everything like that.
00:45:12 --> 00:45:16 So we had no, really no business being classified with.
00:45:16 --> 00:45:16 with.
00:45:16 --> 00:45:19 jams and jellies or any of these other things.
00:45:19 --> 00:45:24 I mean, the whole purpose of, of these cottage, of these kitchen laws is that,
00:45:24 --> 00:45:30 that you're, you're protecting people from spoilage and, and food borne
00:45:30 --> 00:45:35 diseases resulting primarily from bacteria and bacteria doesn't live in honey.
00:45:35 --> 00:45:39 So there's no reason for us to be lumped in with these other things.
00:45:40 --> 00:45:43 So, we basically, you know, my, my thought was.
00:45:44 --> 00:45:48 We'll pull honey out of this jams and jellies law and write a new bill.
00:45:48 --> 00:45:52 And she said, no, actually we passed a cottage food law last year
00:45:53 --> 00:45:55 that lumps in jams and jellies.
00:45:55 --> 00:45:58 So we'll just pull that out of this, this bill, make this the
00:45:58 --> 00:46:02 honey bill and write the exemptions, the further exemptions into this.
00:46:02 --> 00:46:07 So from there, it was a matter of negotiating between what I
00:46:07 --> 00:46:10 thought beekeepers could live with.
00:46:11 --> 00:46:12 And what they thought we could get past.
00:46:12 --> 00:46:17 And, and then this, at this point, I'm thinking the MSBA actually did me a
00:46:17 --> 00:46:23 favor because I can speak now as one person, you know, if you've ever tried
00:46:23 --> 00:46:29 to do anything through a committee, it's a nightmare, so it was just me there.
00:46:29 --> 00:46:31 And whether, whether or not I did everything right.
00:46:31 --> 00:46:34 And I know I didn't, but, but at least I spoke with.
00:46:34 --> 00:46:36 One voice and we got something done.
00:46:36 --> 00:46:43 But Jeannie said, you know, the kitchen, you know, my, my, my goals and the goals
00:46:43 --> 00:46:46 we have set at Three Rivers was get rid of that kitchen, that was the biggest
00:46:46 --> 00:46:52 deal, get rid of that, that ridiculous warning label, and then I wanted to
00:46:52 --> 00:46:53 also get rid of that upper threshold.
00:46:53 --> 00:46:57 Cause I just think it's an arbitrary number, you know, it's kind of
00:46:57 --> 00:47:00 a way to stick it to the big guy for no, no good reason, but But in
00:47:00 --> 00:47:04 any case Jeannie said, yeah, the kitchen thing, that's an easy sell.
00:47:04 --> 00:47:10 The label I don't know, you know, keep in mind that every change we make, it's, it's
00:47:10 --> 00:47:14 going to complicate things more and reduce our chances of moving smoothly through.
00:47:14 --> 00:47:17 And, and I, I kind of stood my ground on that.
00:47:17 --> 00:47:22 I said, this, this, label, it's, it's really an insult to us.
00:47:22 --> 00:47:25 I mean, the whole premise of this is that.
00:47:26 --> 00:47:29 We're dealing with an inherently safe product.
00:47:29 --> 00:47:33 And when you slap a label on there, warning people that it's not inspected,
00:47:33 --> 00:47:35 it sends, it sends the opposite message.
00:47:35 --> 00:47:42 And especially if, if I'm an uneducated consumer looking on a shelf and I got
00:47:42 --> 00:47:45 two vials of honey and the one from Missouri's got that little label on
00:47:45 --> 00:47:47 it that it hasn't been inspected.
00:47:47 --> 00:47:50 And the one from Illinois doesn't say that.
00:47:50 --> 00:47:52 I'm going to buy the Illinois one.
00:47:52 --> 00:47:56 You know, the law is basically, it's, It's basically picking
00:47:56 --> 00:47:58 on our own state's beekeepers.
00:47:59 --> 00:48:05 So anyway, she said, okay, how about we strike the label language now, and
00:48:05 --> 00:48:09 if that becomes a sticking point, it's going to be the difference between
00:48:09 --> 00:48:11 getting the bill passed or not.
00:48:11 --> 00:48:12 We'll put it back in later.
00:48:12 --> 00:48:13 I said, okay, that's fine.
00:48:13 --> 00:48:14 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yeah.
00:48:14 --> 00:48:18 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: And then as far as that 30, 000 threshold,
00:48:19 --> 00:48:23 Zach said, you know, you, we're never going to pass anything that doesn't make a
00:48:23 --> 00:48:30 distinction between regular guys like you and the big corporate producers, whatever,
00:48:30 --> 00:48:31 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: right, yeah.
00:48:31 --> 00:48:33 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: but he said, the good news is the
00:48:33 --> 00:48:38 cottage food law from last year, that's got a 50, 000, 50, 000 limit.
00:48:38 --> 00:48:39 So we can at least bump it.
00:48:39 --> 00:48:42 From 30 to 50 without anybody batting an eye.
00:48:42 --> 00:48:45 And I said, okay, I can live with that.
00:48:45 --> 00:48:48 But with all these questions, you know, the, about the, the, the
00:48:49 --> 00:48:54 possibility of pushback and things, I asked the Senator, I said, so who do
00:48:54 --> 00:48:55 you think would be opposed to this?
00:48:56 --> 00:49:00 And she immediately came back and she said, oh, the urban and suburban beekeeper
00:49:00 --> 00:49:02 or the urban and suburban legislators.
00:49:02 --> 00:49:06 And I said, well, she was, she was surprised when I said, well, actually.
00:49:07 --> 00:49:11 The majority of beekeepers in this state are in those urban and suburban districts.
00:49:11 --> 00:49:12 We're not just a
00:49:12 --> 00:49:16 bunch of farmers out in the country like, like it used to be.
00:49:16 --> 00:49:19 So, So, that, that made her feel better about it.
00:49:19 --> 00:49:23 And then she came back to me and, and, and said, now I need
00:49:23 --> 00:49:24 to be able to demonstrate.
00:49:26 --> 00:49:29 That this is something the beekeepers of Missouri want.
00:49:29 --> 00:49:31 It's not just some disgruntled guy in my
00:49:32 --> 00:49:32 in my
00:49:32 --> 00:49:33 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: right.
00:49:33 --> 00:49:34 It's just not you.
00:49:34 --> 00:49:36 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: said, I'm on the board of the MSBA.
00:49:36 --> 00:49:37 I can do that.
00:49:37 --> 00:49:41 You know, and, and I was thinking later, I hope I wasn't overly optimistic
00:49:41 --> 00:49:44 about that, but I went back and I sent an email to all the board members
00:49:44 --> 00:49:50 and I said, Hey, as it turned out, I heard back from my state senator.
00:49:50 --> 00:49:52 She's on the AG committee.
00:49:52 --> 00:49:54 She thinks we can get it passed this year.
00:49:54 --> 00:49:59 If I run this language by you, can we vote on it?
00:49:59 --> 00:50:00 And the president said, yeah, absolutely.
00:50:00 --> 00:50:01 We can do that.
00:50:01 --> 00:50:01 So.
00:50:02 --> 00:50:04 So Zach sent me the wording of the bill.
00:50:05 --> 00:50:08 Oh, and I went back one more time to him and I said, do me a favor.
00:50:08 --> 00:50:15 If you will, everywhere where this law uses the terms processing
00:50:15 --> 00:50:21 and manufacturing, can you change those to harvesting and bottling?
00:50:21 --> 00:50:22 Cause I want to make it.
00:50:23 --> 00:50:24 Completely clear.
00:50:24 --> 00:50:25 We're not food processes here.
00:50:26 --> 00:50:27 And he said, yeah, we can do that.
00:50:28 --> 00:50:29 So he sent me that wording.
00:50:29 --> 00:50:34 I ran it by the MSBA board, unanimously voted to support it.
00:50:34 --> 00:50:37 And and the bills were, the bill was introduced.
00:50:37 --> 00:50:41 Now the other The other side of it then was Zach said, now you need
00:50:41 --> 00:50:44 to find someone on the house side to introduce an identical bill.
00:50:45 --> 00:50:50 And I was thinking later, I wish they'd have done that for me, but in any case
00:50:50 --> 00:50:56 he, he, suggested go to, go to the, the house ag chairman and ask him to do it.
00:50:56 --> 00:50:59 And so I, of course, ran into the same problem with him as I had
00:50:59 --> 00:51:02 the, the, the, Senate ag chairman.
00:51:02 --> 00:51:03 I wasn't in his district, so he didn't.
00:51:04 --> 00:51:05 Didn't have any interest in dealing with me.
00:51:06 --> 00:51:10 So I went to my new, my brand new state rep, who I took Jeannie
00:51:10 --> 00:51:15 Riddle's old job on the house side, explained the situation.
00:51:15 --> 00:51:18 And he said, yeah, let me talk to the ag chairman.
00:51:19 --> 00:51:21 You know, they were both in the, in the same party.
00:51:21 --> 00:51:24 And and, and see, see what I can do.
00:51:24 --> 00:51:28 And, and by the way, when I, when I first talked to my old neighbor, that was his
00:51:28 --> 00:51:32 other advice is he said, you want to find a Republican to do this because
00:51:32 --> 00:51:34 the Republicans run the show down there.
00:51:34 --> 00:51:34 They, they,
00:51:35 --> 00:51:38 Republicans have had strong majorities in Missouri for
00:51:38 --> 00:51:40 probably the last two decades.
00:51:40 --> 00:51:41 So, and that, that just.
00:51:43 --> 00:51:46 It makes things a lot easier if your own party, you know, if the
00:51:46 --> 00:51:51 party running the show has got the support of your own party.
00:51:51 --> 00:51:55 So, so, I talked, so I talked to my, my state rep.
00:51:56 --> 00:51:59 He said, I'll contact the ag chairman and see what he thinks.
00:51:59 --> 00:52:04 The next day, a companion bill, an identical bill was introduced.
00:52:04 --> 00:52:05 So it was all about.
00:52:05 --> 00:52:11 My, my brand new rep wanting to impress it, funding to help a constituent and, and
00:52:11 --> 00:52:11 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh,
00:52:11 --> 00:52:12 yeah.
00:52:12 --> 00:52:13 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: wanting to impress the new,
00:52:14 --> 00:52:15 the new guy in his own party.
00:52:15 --> 00:52:20 And he just did it and, and didn't even know anything about it.
00:52:20 --> 00:52:22 He just introduced the bill, you know, so I
00:52:22 --> 00:52:23 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh yeah.
00:52:23 --> 00:52:23 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: you very much.
00:52:24 --> 00:52:26 But it was just, it was weird the way that happened.
00:52:28 --> 00:52:30 So then from there, it was just a matter of.
00:52:30 --> 00:52:32 of getting somewhere with it.
00:52:32 --> 00:52:37 And I, I'm, I don't have the, the time here to really explain that whole
00:52:37 --> 00:52:43 process, but I would, I would recommend your listeners to, to look up, there's
00:52:43 --> 00:52:46 an old schoolhouse rock I'm Just a Bill.
00:52:46 --> 00:52:47 Do you remember that?
00:52:47 --> 00:52:48 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yes.
00:52:48 --> 00:52:50 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yeah, you can find it on YouTube.
00:52:50 --> 00:52:51 It's about three minutes long.
00:52:51 --> 00:52:57 But it's a little cartoon video that where it's, it, the star is a little
00:52:57 --> 00:53:01 rolled up piece of paper named Bill and he talks about how he's going
00:53:01 --> 00:53:05 to hopefully find his way through Congress and become a law someday.
00:53:05 --> 00:53:09 And he explains that whole, and it's cute and it's, it's, it's very informative.
00:53:09 --> 00:53:12 And, you know, that's talking about Congress, but most of the
00:53:12 --> 00:53:13 states operate the same way, but
00:53:14 --> 00:53:17 you're basically Introducing that bill and it gets assigned to a
00:53:17 --> 00:53:21 committee, which in our case was the Ag Committee on both sides.
00:53:21 --> 00:53:24 And, and they got to bring it up for a hearing at some point.
00:53:25 --> 00:53:29 And, and then if they pass it forward, then it goes to
00:53:29 --> 00:53:31 the, to the full house for.
00:53:32 --> 00:53:39 So we we then, so we, so we basically had from that time see, the one bill was
00:53:39 --> 00:53:41 February 24th and the other was March 3rd.
00:53:41 --> 00:53:45 We had till May 15th to get these things passed.
00:53:46 --> 00:53:49 And so then beyond the next step for us.
00:53:50 --> 00:53:52 Was to testify in committee.
00:53:52 --> 00:53:58 And by the way, that, that former lobbyist on the MSBA board who at first
00:53:58 --> 00:53:59 said, we don't have time to do this.
00:53:59 --> 00:54:00 He was a huge help to me.
00:54:00 --> 00:54:06 He walked me through the whole process and how it works and through the house
00:54:06 --> 00:54:12 website and the Senate website, telling me, showing me how I can track a bill.
00:54:13 --> 00:54:15 See if there's any amendments to it.
00:54:15 --> 00:54:21 Find out when committee hearings are, what the latest action is and everything.
00:54:21 --> 00:54:25 It was, it was very helpful to me, especially since our first.
00:54:26 --> 00:54:28 We were all set to testify.
00:54:28 --> 00:54:32 I had asked four other beekeepers from different parts of the state
00:54:33 --> 00:54:37 to meet me down in Jefferson city to testify to the Senate Ag Committee.
00:54:37 --> 00:54:44 That one got canceled the night before because Senator Riddle had the flu
00:54:44 --> 00:54:46 and couldn't make it, so they canceled
00:54:46 --> 00:54:47 that one.
00:54:48 --> 00:54:52 But then I was, I was on the house website that Friday and noticed where
00:54:52 --> 00:54:54 they had scheduled a house meeting.
00:54:55 --> 00:54:59 And I, Zach hadn't told me about it and I called him and said, Hey,
00:54:59 --> 00:55:01 there's this house meeting I just saw.
00:55:01 --> 00:55:03 And he's like, Oh yeah, I was going to tell you about that.
00:55:03 --> 00:55:09 But, but anyway, we got our, our ducks in a row and we got down there and testified.
00:55:09 --> 00:55:14 And, And, actually that, where that house chairman introduced the bill.
00:55:14 --> 00:55:17 Without knowing anything about it, we actually ran into a snag
00:55:17 --> 00:55:19 there after we gave our testimony.
00:55:19 --> 00:55:21 There was one woman that got up.
00:55:21 --> 00:55:26 She wasn't from the health department, but she was some, some coalition of health.
00:55:26 --> 00:55:28 groups or something that we all kind of thought
00:55:29 --> 00:55:32 the health department might have put her up to it, but she got up
00:55:32 --> 00:55:35 and she argued against the getting rid of that label requirement.
00:55:36 --> 00:55:39 And cause she said, well, you know, people need to know that they just
00:55:39 --> 00:55:43 assume that their food's been inspected by somebody and they need to know if
00:55:43 --> 00:55:47 it's not, and, and somebody on the committee turned to the Ag chairman
00:55:47 --> 00:55:50 who had introduced the bill and said, Well, what do you think about this, Jay?
00:55:50 --> 00:55:52 And he said, yeah, I don't know why that's in there.
00:55:52 --> 00:55:56 We could, we could, you know, we could put that language back in there.
00:55:56 --> 00:56:00 And I'm, I'm thinking, yeah, you don't know anything about it
00:56:00 --> 00:56:01 cause you didn't return my calls.
00:56:01 --> 00:56:07 But, but anyway, I, I got an opportunity to, to get up and afterwards and, and
00:56:07 --> 00:56:13 argue my point, you know, about, and I, and I used the whole state versus state
00:56:13 --> 00:56:17 thing that, you know, you're putting your own state's beekeepers at a disadvantage.
00:56:18 --> 00:56:19 So they, they, you know, and.
00:56:20 --> 00:56:21 So everything was fine.
00:56:21 --> 00:56:23 We kept the language the way we wanted it.
00:56:24 --> 00:56:29 But the amazing thing about this was we got no, no disagreement at
00:56:29 --> 00:56:30 all from any of the legislators.
00:56:30 --> 00:56:34 They kept interrupting us with statements like, well, honey's
00:56:34 --> 00:56:35 like the perfect food, isn't it?
00:56:35 --> 00:56:38 And I heard that it never spoils and it's good for allergies, you
00:56:38 --> 00:56:41 know, and we're just nodding along.
00:56:41 --> 00:56:45 And so, so everything went, went great.
00:56:45 --> 00:56:50 And the, the neat thing too, is when the hearing was over, we walked out.
00:56:52 --> 00:56:57 were followed up by one of a woman from ST louis ar I just want to tell
00:56:57 --> 00:57:06 you h to have real people come us their stories and not do it for them.
00:57:06 --> 00:57:07 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: oh,
00:57:07 --> 00:57:07 yeah.
00:57:08 --> 00:57:09 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: good about ourselves.
00:57:09 --> 00:57:16 So went much the same way an testifying on the other s So they both, they were
00:57:16 --> 00:57:24 b Easily, you know, unanimously and, and and they both passed passed easily and
00:57:24 --> 00:57:28 the full, the House and the Senate too, but even though they were, and I was
00:57:28 --> 00:57:32 thinking, oh, great, we're done, but no, even though they're identical, one of
00:57:32 --> 00:57:34 these still has to go to the other side.
00:57:35 --> 00:57:37 And find its way through.
00:57:37 --> 00:57:37 And, and
00:57:38 --> 00:57:38 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh
00:57:38 --> 00:57:39 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: so again, it was just a
00:57:39 --> 00:57:41 matter of beating that clock.
00:57:41 --> 00:57:46 And, And, we, there was, even though there was no opposition, we were very close
00:57:46 --> 00:57:51 at the end because we ran into a bunch of, we ran into other unrelated stuff.
00:57:51 --> 00:57:55 One of them, the the Senate.
00:57:56 --> 00:58:02 Let's see, the House, the House committee, which was considering the
00:58:02 --> 00:58:08 Senate bill, piled a bunch of unrelated amendments onto it, basically stuff
00:58:08 --> 00:58:10 that couldn't pass by themselves.
00:58:10 --> 00:58:11 So they basically sunk our
00:58:11 --> 00:58:11 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yeah.
00:58:12 --> 00:58:13 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: And so we were, we were
00:58:13 --> 00:58:14 counting on the Senate.
00:58:14 --> 00:58:19 Well, the Senate quit, the Senate went shut down a week prior to the end.
00:58:20 --> 00:58:23 on a filibuster over a right to work issue.
00:58:23 --> 00:58:25 And so we were done for there.
00:58:26 --> 00:58:29 And then we were, so then we're like sending emails.
00:58:29 --> 00:58:34 I'm sending emails out to say, hey, contact your, your house people,
00:58:34 --> 00:58:36 tell them to pull these amendments and, you know, and everything.
00:58:36 --> 00:58:39 And then the house shut down two days left to go over, over
00:58:39 --> 00:58:41 a sex scandal of all things.
00:58:42 --> 00:58:43 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: oh no.
00:58:43 --> 00:58:45 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: The house speaker had a dalliance
00:58:45 --> 00:58:47 with a 19 year old intern.
00:58:47 --> 00:58:53 And they shut down the house on Wednesday when they were, they were,
00:58:53 --> 00:58:55 the session was ended on Friday.
00:58:56 --> 00:58:59 They shut down the house, opened up back up Friday morning with a new speaker.
00:58:59 --> 00:59:02 And they said, let's pass some stuff.
00:59:02 --> 00:59:05 And we were one of 32 bills that, that got squeezed through at the
00:59:06 --> 00:59:07 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: oh, got in there.
00:59:07 --> 00:59:09 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: it up, stripped the amendments and passed it.
00:59:09 --> 00:59:13 And, and it was way more trouble than it should have been, but
00:59:13 --> 00:59:19 somehow we got it passed and, and I was, I pretty much decided I wasn't
00:59:19 --> 00:59:21 going to go through that again.
00:59:21 --> 00:59:23 So I was glad it, glad it made it through.
00:59:24 --> 00:59:26 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Was there any issue with getting
00:59:26 --> 00:59:27 the governor to sign it?
00:59:27 --> 00:59:29 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: No, the governor, we were pretty,
00:59:29 --> 00:59:34 pretty confident about we didn't hear anything from him one way or another,
00:59:34 --> 00:59:36 but, but his wife had actually.
00:59:36 --> 00:59:41 She was, she was a regular customer of one of our, one of our members in
00:59:41 --> 00:59:46 Jefferson city, and she'd actually come up, come to one of our meetings when we
00:59:46 --> 00:59:48 met in Jeff city and, and talked to us.
00:59:48 --> 00:59:51 So we knew that we felt pretty confident about that.
00:59:51 --> 00:59:52 It took, it took a month or
00:59:52 --> 00:59:52 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh
00:59:52 --> 00:59:53 yeah.
00:59:53 --> 00:59:54 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: him to finally get around to
00:59:54 --> 00:59:56 signing it, but, but he did.
00:59:56 --> 00:59:59 And, and so it went into effect that, that August.
01:00:00 --> 01:00:05 But you know, the, the really, there, there are some, to me, there are some,
01:00:05 --> 01:00:07 some, some lessons to be learned here.
01:00:07 --> 01:00:10 The, the, the first one just being, you can do this.
01:00:10 --> 01:00:11 I mean, that's the thing I've
01:00:12 --> 01:00:13 been telling people.
01:00:13 --> 01:00:17 Because people just kind of get used to, to dealing with these, these laws.
01:00:17 --> 01:00:20 You know, in, in this and, and, and everywhere else.
01:00:20 --> 01:00:23 You know, you get used to, you know, Well, I don't like this government regulation,
01:00:23 --> 01:00:25 but what am I going to do about it?
01:00:25 --> 01:00:28 It's set in stone, and I'm not going to be the guy who's going to
01:00:28 --> 01:00:30 be able to do something about it.
01:00:30 --> 01:00:35 And even if you want to, getting some people to go along with you,
01:00:35 --> 01:00:40 and you know, it's a hard process.
01:00:40 --> 01:00:41 And I don't know.
01:00:41 --> 01:00:47 I still, I still am annoyed every time I read something or watch
01:00:47 --> 01:00:51 something where they're talking, giving instructions about extracting your
01:00:51 --> 01:00:55 honey and all these things that kind of throw in the obligatory paragraph.
01:00:55 --> 01:00:59 Of course, you know, you can't sell this through stores unless you rent a
01:00:59 --> 01:01:02 kitchen or build a kitchen to do it in.
01:01:02 --> 01:01:05 And, and it's just kind of a matter of fact thing that this is the way things
01:01:05 --> 01:01:09 are, because there are a lot of states that, that, still have these rules.
01:01:10 --> 01:01:13 It's, It's, something that they're all very similar.
01:01:13 --> 01:01:17 It's something somebody apparently passed many years ago and everybody
01:01:17 --> 01:01:19 else jumped on board and followed
01:01:19 --> 01:01:20 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh yeah.
01:01:21 --> 01:01:22 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: It doesn't have to be that way.
01:01:24 --> 01:01:27 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Yeah, I see a lot of bills that are introduced and
01:01:27 --> 01:01:30 when you see them they're the exact wording from another state that they
01:01:30 --> 01:01:32 just brought, someone brought over.
01:01:33 --> 01:01:33 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yeah.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:34 Yeah.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:37 And really all it, all it takes is for somebody to start this process.
01:01:37 --> 01:01:39 This is, this is something that.
01:01:40 --> 01:01:42 Like I said, there's no opposition to it.
01:01:43 --> 01:01:47 You're not going to, not going to get any reason, any, any significant
01:01:47 --> 01:01:48 pushback from the legislators.
01:01:48 --> 01:01:53 It's just a matter of going through the process and it's not an easy process.
01:01:53 --> 01:01:54 And I understand it.
01:01:54 --> 01:01:59 And, and actually in some ways I, You know, we ran into a lot of stuff
01:01:59 --> 01:02:03 that we shouldn't have run into with the, with at the end there.
01:02:03 --> 01:02:04 But I,
01:02:05 --> 01:02:07 I understand why the process is diff difficult.
01:02:07 --> 01:02:11 It, it shouldn't be easy to pass a law because frankly, most of the
01:02:11 --> 01:02:13 laws they pass . I'd rather not.
01:02:13 --> 01:02:14 I'd rather they didn't pass 'em.
01:02:14 --> 01:02:14 So I'm
01:02:15 --> 01:02:15 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Right.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:16 I agree.
01:02:16 --> 01:02:18 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: point, but, but, it's just a matter
01:02:18 --> 01:02:20 of somebody, somebody taking the ball.
01:02:20 --> 01:02:25 And, and I, I was fortunate at that time, and the, the job that I had, I was.
01:02:26 --> 01:02:31 I was working in printing and I was in kind of an R and D role, so I wasn't
01:02:31 --> 01:02:34 out there running the press where I couldn't take a day off work without
01:02:34 --> 01:02:35 upsetting the apple cart, you know,
01:02:36 --> 01:02:36 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh yeah.
01:02:36 --> 01:02:39 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: I was, you know, in some ways a non
01:02:39 --> 01:02:43 essential employee, I guess I could, I could take a day off on short notice,
01:02:43 --> 01:02:49 like I did to go testify a couple of times and that helped, but it is going
01:02:49 --> 01:02:53 to make a difference for a lot of people and there was, there was nothing.
01:02:54 --> 01:02:56 Nothing special about me at the time going in.
01:02:56 --> 01:02:59 I had no particular knowledge of how to do this.
01:02:59 --> 01:03:03 You can see, you know, like I was explaining, I was kind of at a loss at
01:03:03 --> 01:03:06 the beginning and just kind of things fell into place here and there and
01:03:07 --> 01:03:09 we were able to get it to get it through.
01:03:09 --> 01:03:10 But
01:03:12 --> 01:03:18 I went through the process, Yeah, I'll make no bones about the fact that I, this
01:03:18 --> 01:03:19 was personal for me at the beginning.
01:03:20 --> 01:03:24 I, first of all, first of all, it just rankled me to no
01:03:24 --> 01:03:26 end that, that they did this.
01:03:26 --> 01:03:30 But then just the, the lack of empathy that I got from the
01:03:30 --> 01:03:36 inspectors, I kind of got, kind of got my, my, my heart set in it.
01:03:36 --> 01:03:39 And I was going to, I was going to push this through on, on principle.
01:03:39 --> 01:03:46 And, and then the further I went into it, the more I started hearing From other
01:03:46 --> 01:03:48 people that just was affecting them too.
01:03:48 --> 01:03:54 And once we got it all done, some of the responses I got were just, just amazing.
01:03:54 --> 01:03:58 I mean, I had a guy call me from Arkansas.
01:03:59 --> 01:04:02 He said, I live, I live just across the border from Missouri.
01:04:02 --> 01:04:06 I run 80 to a hundred hives on both sides of the border.
01:04:06 --> 01:04:10 And up until now, I've been selling my Arkansas honey in Missouri
01:04:10 --> 01:04:12 stores and my Missouri honey.
01:04:12 --> 01:04:15 in Arkansas stores just to get around these stupid laws on both
01:04:15 --> 01:04:17 sides of the, on both sides of the
01:04:17 --> 01:04:18 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yeah.
01:04:19 --> 01:04:20 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: And now at least I can sell my
01:04:20 --> 01:04:25 honey in Missouri store, my Missouri honey in Missouri stores legally.
01:04:25 --> 01:04:25 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yeah.
01:04:26 --> 01:04:28 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: did change their law a couple,
01:04:28 --> 01:04:29 a couple of years ago, too.
01:04:30 --> 01:04:33 They have they still have a labeling, that labeling requirement,
01:04:34 --> 01:04:37 but you don't need the kitchen anymore, which is, which is great.
01:04:38 --> 01:04:43 But I also had a guy at our, at our fall meeting that year, we brought
01:04:43 --> 01:04:48 in Senator Riddle and, and gave her a nice plaque and, and honored her.
01:04:48 --> 01:04:51 She got up and said a few words at our Friday night banquet.
01:04:51 --> 01:04:56 And the next morning I had a guy approach me.
01:04:56 --> 01:05:01 At the first break at the conference and he came walking up to me,
01:05:01 --> 01:05:05 big burly guy he came, walked up to me, grabbed hold of my hand.
01:05:05 --> 01:05:09 He said, I live down Southwest corner of the state.
01:05:09 --> 01:05:13 He said, I want you to know I'm driving for four hours.
01:05:14 --> 01:05:14 What did he say?
01:05:14 --> 01:05:15 I'm driving.
01:05:16 --> 01:05:19 I forget what it was, four hours round trip or something this, this
01:05:19 --> 01:05:21 weekend, just to shake your hand.
01:05:21 --> 01:05:23 I've been down there dealing with the health department.
01:05:24 --> 01:05:28 I've last year, I was going back and forth with my county health department, trying
01:05:28 --> 01:05:33 to determine what it was going to cost me to, to build one of these dang kitchens.
01:05:33 --> 01:05:36 My estimate was up to 20, 000 and counting.
01:05:36 --> 01:05:38 And I read about this bill and I held off.
01:05:38 --> 01:05:39 Now I don't have to do it.
01:05:40 --> 01:05:41 I'm standing there.
01:05:41 --> 01:05:44 I, I, Getting tears in my eyes in
01:05:44 --> 01:05:44 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh,
01:05:44 --> 01:05:47 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: squeezing my hand so hard, but just,
01:05:47 --> 01:05:50 you know, it just kind of hit me that, you know, something that just started
01:05:50 --> 01:05:56 out as a personal matter ended up You know, helping a lot of people and, and
01:05:56 --> 01:05:58 I, I'm really glad I went through it.
01:05:58 --> 01:06:02 And I just think it's important for people to know that you can, you can do
01:06:02 --> 01:06:05 that if you, if you really want to do it.
01:06:05 --> 01:06:06 Yeah.
01:06:07 --> 01:06:10 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: That's great information just knowing you're able to
01:06:10 --> 01:06:16 go through there and get the bill passed, go through all those steps, because,
01:06:16 --> 01:06:23 you know, outside of the schoolhouse rock jingle, that's about all most of
01:06:23 --> 01:06:29 us have done in that realm, so it's really intimidating as we think about it.
01:06:30 --> 01:06:32 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: And it's really good to see there are more
01:06:32 --> 01:06:34 states that are, that are doing this.
01:06:34 --> 01:06:37 I mean, I mentioned, I mentioned Arkansas.
01:06:37 --> 01:06:41 We've also got New Jersey just passed something a couple of years ago.
01:06:41 --> 01:06:42 I think they passed it.
01:06:43 --> 01:06:45 What was it in 2022?
01:06:45 --> 01:06:50 And they actually passed it two years in a row, unanimously, through the legislature.
01:06:51 --> 01:06:53 The governor vetoed it the first time.
01:06:53 --> 01:06:59 He actually, he pocket vetoed it the first time, which, what that means is if.
01:06:59 --> 01:07:04 If you, if it passes late in the session, your government can just ignore it
01:07:04 --> 01:07:06 for 60 days or something like that.
01:07:06 --> 01:07:07 And then it just dies.
01:07:07 --> 01:07:08 You don't even have to take a stand.
01:07:09 --> 01:07:09 I hate that.
01:07:10 --> 01:07:13 And then the second year, they passed it again, and it was the
01:07:13 --> 01:07:16 same governor, but he left town.
01:07:16 --> 01:07:21 Both the governor and the lieutenant governor left town, they were traveling
01:07:21 --> 01:07:25 somewhere, and some junket, and that put the Senate, I think it was the
01:07:25 --> 01:07:29 Senate president in charge, and he signed a bunch of bills, including the
01:07:29 --> 01:07:34 time bill, and so they got it through that, snuck it through that way, so.
01:07:34 --> 01:07:35 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yes.
01:07:35 --> 01:07:36 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: So that's nice.
01:07:36 --> 01:07:39 Kansas right now has got, they've got committee hearings.
01:07:39 --> 01:07:44 This, this week, one of the committee hearings, they've got a bill basically
01:07:44 --> 01:07:47 based on ours, and they're using our example saying, hey, we're at a
01:07:47 --> 01:07:52 disadvantage now to our neighboring state, several of our neighboring
01:07:52 --> 01:07:54 states, including Missouri.
01:07:54 --> 01:07:58 We need to catch up to their law and allow our beekeepers some freedom.
01:07:58 --> 01:08:01 So, so that's, that's really great to see.
01:08:02 --> 01:08:03 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yeah, it is.
01:08:03 --> 01:08:03 Yeah.
01:08:04 --> 01:08:09 Well, Eugene, it is time for us to transition to our famous four questions.
01:08:09 --> 01:08:12 Same four questions we ask of all of our guests.
01:08:13 --> 01:08:18 Our first question, what is your favorite beekeeping related book or resource?
01:08:19 --> 01:08:22 And I think there's an obvious answer here, but we'll see if you go with it.
01:08:22 --> 01:08:24 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Yeah, I, I think I would
01:08:24 --> 01:08:27 definitely put American Bee Journal somewhere in the top 10
01:08:27 --> 01:08:28 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yeah.
01:08:28 --> 01:08:30 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: now that I think, you know, both,
01:08:30 --> 01:08:32 both magazines are, are good.
01:08:32 --> 01:08:36 I've, I've gotten both magazines for, for over 25 years.
01:08:36 --> 01:08:42 And, and I of course, It's no secret that I like ABJ better,
01:08:42 --> 01:08:44 and I've always liked it better.
01:08:44 --> 01:08:48 I thought it was, you know, just, it's the larger magazine,
01:08:48 --> 01:08:50 and I've always preferred it.
01:08:50 --> 01:08:52 But both of those magazines are good.
01:08:53 --> 01:08:57 I think a great resource is The Hive and the Honeybee, which was Langstroth's
01:08:57 --> 01:09:02 original book way back one day, and has published it since late 1800s.
01:09:02 --> 01:09:07 They published the first major revision, and they've been at it ever since.
01:09:07 --> 01:09:07 Thanks.
01:09:07 --> 01:09:11 There are a lot of, a lot of good, good books out there.
01:09:11 --> 01:09:15 Our, our the beekeeper, beekeeping handbook is the one that we
01:09:15 --> 01:09:18 use for our beginners classes.
01:09:18 --> 01:09:22 The beekeepers, let me see, turn around here, look at it on the shelf.
01:09:22 --> 01:09:24 The beekeepers handbook is what it's called.
01:09:24 --> 01:09:28 It's Diana Samantaro and Alphonse Avatable.
01:09:28 --> 01:09:30 We've been using that for a long time.
01:09:30 --> 01:09:32 It's a good basic resource.
01:09:32 --> 01:09:35 And then there's some, there's some good podcasts out there.
01:09:35 --> 01:09:36 This of course is, is a new one.
01:09:37 --> 01:09:38 Beekeeping Today is a pretty good one.
01:09:38 --> 01:09:39 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yes.
01:09:39 --> 01:09:40 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: There's, you know, there's, there's
01:09:40 --> 01:09:42 a lot of good resources out there.
01:09:43 --> 01:09:45 And then, you know, there's some good Facebook groups too.
01:09:46 --> 01:09:46 We've got a great one.
01:09:46 --> 01:09:49 Missouri beekeepers Facebook group is a really good one.
01:09:49 --> 01:09:55 Oh, oh, and I have to mention too, there's a, there's an internet list called
01:09:55 --> 01:09:58 listserv, it's called the BEE-L B E E - L.
01:09:58 --> 01:10:01 I've been on that thing since right after I started beekeeping.
01:10:01 --> 01:10:04 I've got internet about the same time.
01:10:04 --> 01:10:05 I found this research.
01:10:05 --> 01:10:06 It's a discussion group.
01:10:07 --> 01:10:13 It's, it's, there's a lot of science base to it, but it's, it's really good.
01:10:13 --> 01:10:14 It's a wealth of information.
01:10:16 --> 01:10:17 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Excellent resources there.
01:10:17 --> 01:10:21 I haven't thought about a list-serv in in years, I would have to
01:10:21 --> 01:10:22 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Definitely old school.
01:10:22 --> 01:10:25 I mean, old, old, I mean, it's new in that it's internet, I
01:10:25 --> 01:10:27 guess, but old school internet.
01:10:29 --> 01:10:30 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Right, yes.
01:10:30 --> 01:10:32 Our second question.
01:10:32 --> 01:10:34 What's your favorite piece of equipment for beekeeping?
01:10:36 --> 01:10:38 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: You know, I'm not really a gadget guy.
01:10:39 --> 01:10:43 I've got my, my Jayhook hive tool and my date and smoker.
01:10:43 --> 01:10:46 And I'm good to go for the most part.
01:10:46 --> 01:10:52 Now, where it comes to extracting, I got a couple of, a couple of things
01:10:52 --> 01:10:54 that were life changing for me.
01:10:54 --> 01:10:58 One was, you know, when you, you, you load that extractor up, whether it's
01:10:58 --> 01:11:03 a four frame or a 12 frame, or you, when you start spinning it, it always
01:11:03 --> 01:11:07 wants to wobble and bounce around like an unbalanced washing machine.
01:11:07 --> 01:11:08 And, and some of it is just.
01:11:09 --> 01:11:13 Unbalanced, but, but even if you work pretty hard to balance out your frames,
01:11:13 --> 01:11:17 you still got a lot of that bouncing around and somebody suggested at
01:11:17 --> 01:11:20 one point put casters on the bottom.
01:11:21 --> 01:11:26 So you're like my, my extractor I've got at my, I got a 12 frame or now
01:11:27 --> 01:11:31 electric and it's, it's mounted on a wooden box I made out of plywood and
01:11:32 --> 01:11:35 just to get it up off the ground, off the ground so you can drain into a bucket.
01:11:36 --> 01:11:37 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, yeah.
01:11:37 --> 01:11:39 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: and that thing would bounce all over
01:11:39 --> 01:11:42 and there's two or three of us on there holding the thing down and
01:11:42 --> 01:11:47 just put a, put a caster on each corner, a little wheel on each corner.
01:11:47 --> 01:11:49 It makes all the difference in the world.
01:11:49 --> 01:11:52 Now it just kind of, just kind of wobbles a little bit and it might
01:11:52 --> 01:11:55 move a little bit and you just reach out with one hand and move it back.
01:11:55 --> 01:11:56 And it's, it's, it's,
01:11:57 --> 01:11:57 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh,
01:11:57 --> 01:11:57 yeah.
01:11:57 --> 01:12:00 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: really, really a great great idea.
01:12:01 --> 01:12:04 And the other one is when I talk about draining that into
01:12:04 --> 01:12:05 a bucket, they have these.
01:12:05 --> 01:12:09 These filters, these plastic, you can buy a set of plastic filters.
01:12:09 --> 01:12:11 They're medium course and fine.
01:12:11 --> 01:12:14 Set that into your bucket and it drains in there.
01:12:14 --> 01:12:18 The problem is, as that bucket's getting full, you can't see where the level is.
01:12:19 --> 01:12:24 And then when it bottoms out in there, You can't fill the thing the whole way up.
01:12:24 --> 01:12:27 You got to lift it up and wait for that to drain as much as possible.
01:12:27 --> 01:12:30 So you're not slinging honey while you're transferring it.
01:12:30 --> 01:12:35 Well, I got this Dan was selling these, these filter stands.
01:12:35 --> 01:12:36 It's a stainless steel stand.
01:12:36 --> 01:12:38 It sits on top of that bucket.
01:12:39 --> 01:12:43 Mounts onto the, you know, just sits on the, on the edge of the bucket.
01:12:43 --> 01:12:49 You set that filter stand on there and it's gets it off, off the top of that,
01:12:49 --> 01:12:52 that bucket and you can watch it and, and
01:12:52 --> 01:12:53 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh,
01:12:53 --> 01:12:54 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: don't make a mess.
01:12:54 --> 01:12:56 And you can see, you can fill that bucket all the way to the top.
01:12:56 --> 01:13:01 And, and those, you know, I looked at those in the catalog for a couple of
01:13:01 --> 01:13:03 years and I'm as cheap as they come.
01:13:04 --> 01:13:07 And it was, it was like 20 at the time.
01:13:07 --> 01:13:09 And I held off and I finally, finally bought one.
01:13:09 --> 01:13:14 It's like, Oh my gosh, that is, that is the best thing I've ever, I've ever had.
01:13:15 --> 01:13:16 And that was probably five years ago.
01:13:16 --> 01:13:19 They're probably 30 now with the way stainless steel is going up.
01:13:20 --> 01:13:20 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh,
01:13:20 --> 01:13:20 yeah.
01:13:20 --> 01:13:24 Well, it's probably 40.
01:13:26 --> 01:13:29 Our third question, what would you tell someone just getting started?
01:13:30 --> 01:13:32 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: I always tell people you
01:13:32 --> 01:13:33 want to take a workshop.
01:13:34 --> 01:13:36 I mean, you, you want to, you want to join a local club.
01:13:36 --> 01:13:41 You got to every day, every month resource there.
01:13:41 --> 01:13:45 And you want to take a workshop and just get yourself a base of knowledge.
01:13:45 --> 01:13:50 And, and I even tell people who start middle of the year and
01:13:50 --> 01:13:52 struggle, and I mentor them.
01:13:52 --> 01:13:55 I still tell them, you know, come to our workshop in the spring and, and, just
01:13:55 --> 01:13:57 get that, get that broad based knowledge.
01:13:57 --> 01:14:00 It's going to make a big difference to you.
01:14:00 --> 01:14:02 And of course, subscribe to my magazine.
01:14:03 --> 01:14:04 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Well, of course, yeah.
01:14:06 --> 01:14:07 Excellent answer there.
01:14:07 --> 01:14:08 Excellent advice.
01:14:08 --> 01:14:11 And lastly, Eugene, where can others find out more about you?
01:14:13 --> 01:14:14 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: Well, you can, you can email me.
01:14:14 --> 01:14:17 You can find me at editor at AmericanBeeJournal.
01:14:17 --> 01:14:18 com.
01:14:18 --> 01:14:20 It's the best way to contact me.
01:14:21 --> 01:14:23 And yeah, that's, that's basically, basically it.
01:14:23 --> 01:14:26 I'm not not out there on TV or anything.
01:14:26 --> 01:14:26 I don't think so.
01:14:28 --> 01:14:29 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Wonderful, Eugene.
01:14:29 --> 01:14:32 We appreciate you coming on and sharing with us today.
01:14:32 --> 01:14:33 squadcaster-cbgh_1_02-05-2025_103234: All right.
01:14:33 --> 01:14:34 I appreciate you having me on.
01:14:35 --> 01:14:37 Congratulations on the podcast.
01:14:37 --> 01:14:39 I like, I like what I've, the couple that I've watched so far
01:14:41 --> 01:14:41 cal_1_02-05-2025_103236: Oh, well, thank you.
01:14:41 --> 01:14:42 I appreciate
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